For the benefit of those who think Lisa Orme is over egging the situation of renting out your own property without approval and ditto living in your BTL.....straight from the horse's mouth from a broker I know regarding the experience of one of his clients

"I placed a residential mortgage with Accord approx 5 years ago, 2 years ago they decided my client were renting the property out and wanted to switch them onto a commercial interest rate or have the mortgage repaid. The letter was sent to them at the security address. My clients went into the local branch of Yorkshire BS with bank statements, council tax statements utility bills to show they lived in the property. Accord did not believe them and sent the bailiffs round to evict them. My client were evicted and were unable to re enter their property for a week until common sense prevailed and they got back into their property."

Thanks for sharing that Kevin.

I wonder what prompted the lender to think that the people in question were not living at the property?

I think Lisa deals in facts, which are cold and hard.

If people want to take risks, then that is up to them, but so many of the wealth creation gurus never mention the risks involved in some of their strategies.

(12-10-2012 03:45 PM)Kevin Wright Wrote:  For the benefit of those who think Lisa Orme is over egging the situation of renting out your own property without approval and ditto living in your BTL.....straight from the horse's mouth from a broker I know regarding the experience of one of his clients

"I placed a residential mortgage with Accord approx 5 years ago, 2 years ago they decided my client were renting the property out and wanted to switch them onto a commercial interest rate or have the mortgage repaid. The letter was sent to them at the security address. My clients went into the local branch of Yorkshire BS with bank statements, council tax statements utility bills to show they lived in the property. Accord did not believe them and sent the bailiffs round to evict them. My client were evicted and were unable to re enter their property for a week until common sense prevailed and they got back into their property."

Why didn't these residential occupier tell, the bailfiffs to FO.
Court action would be needed to enforce such bailiffs.
Bank statement etc would be shown to the court to validate such bailiffs.
These occupiers would have taken their documents to the court. and then only the judge would decide whether bailiffs can be instructed.
These idiot owners should not have let bailiffs in.
Dopey owners will be taken to the cleaners by banks if they don't know what they are doing.
The bank has to prove to the court that the owners are in breach of the mortgage conditions; not the other way round.
I think the High Court bailiffs might have more powers than the normal county court ones.

(12-10-2012 04:41 PM)paul_barrett Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 03:45 PM)Kevin Wright Wrote:  For the benefit of those who think Lisa Orme is over egging the situation of renting out your own property without approval and ditto living in your BTL.....straight from the horse's mouth from a broker I know regarding the experience of one of his clients

"I placed a residential mortgage with Accord approx 5 years ago, 2 years ago they decided my client were renting the property out and wanted to switch them onto a commercial interest rate or have the mortgage repaid. The letter was sent to them at the security address. My clients went into the local branch of Yorkshire BS with bank statements, council tax statements utility bills to show they lived in the property. Accord did not believe them and sent the bailiffs round to evict them. My client were evicted and were unable to re enter their property for a week until common sense prevailed and they got back into their property."

Why didn't these residential occupier tell, the bailfiffs to FO.
Court action would be needed to enforce such bailiffs.
Bank statement etc would be shown to the court to validate such bailiffs.
These occupiers would have taken their documents to the court. and then only the judge would decide whether bailiffs can be instructed.
These idiot owners should not have let bailiffs in.
Dopey owners will be taken to the cleaners by banks if they don't know what they are doing.
The bank has to prove to the court that the owners are in breach of the mortgage conditions; not the other way round.
I think the High Court bailiffs might have more powers than the normal county court ones.

Paul you are being very unfair to the owners.

The typical home owner should not have to know the eviction process and how to thwart official action to repossess their house.

This is exactly why financial matters (eg mortgages) relating to your own home is regulated - to protect the consumer.

(12-10-2012 05:52 PM)Simon Topple Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 04:41 PM)paul_barrett Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 03:45 PM)Kevin Wright Wrote:  For the benefit of those who think Lisa Orme is over egging the situation of renting out your own property without approval and ditto living in your BTL.....straight from the horse's mouth from a broker I know regarding the experience of one of his clients

"I placed a residential mortgage with Accord approx 5 years ago, 2 years ago they decided my client were renting the property out and wanted to switch them onto a commercial interest rate or have the mortgage repaid. The letter was sent to them at the security address. My clients went into the local branch of Yorkshire BS with bank statements, council tax statements utility bills to show they lived in the property. Accord did not believe them and sent the bailiffs round to evict them. My client were evicted and were unable to re enter their property for a week until common sense prevailed and they got back into their property."

Why didn't these residential occupier tell, the bailfiffs to FO.
Court action would be needed to enforce such bailiffs.
Bank statement etc would be shown to the court to validate such bailiffs.
These occupiers would have taken their documents to the court. and then only the judge would decide whether bailiffs can be instructed.
These idiot owners should not have let bailiffs in.
Dopey owners will be taken to the cleaners by banks if they don't know what they are doing.
The bank has to prove to the court that the owners are in breach of the mortgage conditions; not the other way round.
I think the High Court bailiffs might have more powers than the normal county court ones.

Paul you are being very unfair to the owners.

The typical home owner should not have to know the eviction process and how to thwart official action to repossess their house.

This is exactly why financial matters (eg mortgages) relating to your own home is regulated - to protect the consumer.

Well you do your researchdon't you.
One free phone call to nationaldebtline would have solved the problem.
The modern world requires people to be on their guard against banks etc.
Even CAB would have helped.
I have NO sympathy for people who stick their head in the sand and then find themselves stitiched up.
If they came onto this site they would have been inundated with correct advice.
These homeowners are the sort of idiots who would pay for debt advice and management. when it is available ALL for FREE!
Ignorance will always be taken advantage of.
I would have thought they might have done a bit more to sort their accommodation problems out.
NEVER trust a bank.

(12-10-2012 06:00 PM)paul_barrett Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 05:52 PM)Simon Topple Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 04:41 PM)paul_barrett Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 03:45 PM)Kevin Wright Wrote:  For the benefit of those who think Lisa Orme is over egging the situation of renting out your own property without approval and ditto living in your BTL.....straight from the horse's mouth from a broker I know regarding the experience of one of his clients

"I placed a residential mortgage with Accord approx 5 years ago, 2 years ago they decided my client were renting the property out and wanted to switch them onto a commercial interest rate or have the mortgage repaid. The letter was sent to them at the security address. My clients went into the local branch of Yorkshire BS with bank statements, council tax statements utility bills to show they lived in the property. Accord did not believe them and sent the bailiffs round to evict them. My client were evicted and were unable to re enter their property for a week until common sense prevailed and they got back into their property."

Why didn't these residential occupier tell, the bailfiffs to FO.
Court action would be needed to enforce such bailiffs.
Bank statement etc would be shown to the court to validate such bailiffs.
These occupiers would have taken their documents to the court. and then only the judge would decide whether bailiffs can be instructed.
These idiot owners should not have let bailiffs in.
Dopey owners will be taken to the cleaners by banks if they don't know what they are doing.
The bank has to prove to the court that the owners are in breach of the mortgage conditions; not the other way round.
I think the High Court bailiffs might have more powers than the normal county court ones.

Paul you are being very unfair to the owners.

The typical home owner should not have to know the eviction process and how to thwart official action to repossess their house.

This is exactly why financial matters (eg mortgages) relating to your own home is regulated - to protect the consumer.

-
Well you do your researchdon't you.
One free phone call to nationaldebtline would have solved the problem.
The modern world requires people to be on their guard against banks etc.
Even CAB would have helped.
I have NO sympathy for people who stick their head in the sand and then find themselves stitiched up.
If they came onto this site they would have been inundated with correct advice.
These homeowners are the sort of idiots who would pay for debt advice and management. when it is available ALL for FREE!
Ignorance will always be taken advantage of.
I would have thought they might have done a bit more to sort their accommodation problems out.
NEVER trust a bank.

It was an administrative and human error of judgement. Unless you are implying the bank are repossessing just because they can?

(12-10-2012 06:04 PM)Simon Topple Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 06:00 PM)paul_barrett Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 05:52 PM)Simon Topple Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 04:41 PM)paul_barrett Wrote:  

(12-10-2012 03:45 PM)Kevin Wright Wrote:  For the benefit of those who think Lisa Orme is over egging the situation of renting out your own property without approval and ditto living in your BTL.....straight from the horse's mouth from a broker I know regarding the experience of one of his clients

"I placed a residential mortgage with Accord approx 5 years ago, 2 years ago they decided my client were renting the property out and wanted to switch them onto a commercial interest rate or have the mortgage repaid. The letter was sent to them at the security address. My clients went into the local branch of Yorkshire BS with bank statements, council tax statements utility bills to show they lived in the property. Accord did not believe them and sent the bailiffs round to evict them. My client were evicted and were unable to re enter their property for a week until common sense prevailed and they got back into their property."

Why didn't these residential occupier tell, the bailfiffs to FO.
Court action would be needed to enforce such bailiffs.
Bank statement etc would be shown to the court to validate such bailiffs.
These occupiers would have taken their documents to the court. and then only the judge would decide whether bailiffs can be instructed.
These idiot owners should not have let bailiffs in.
Dopey owners will be taken to the cleaners by banks if they don't know what they are doing.
The bank has to prove to the court that the owners are in breach of the mortgage conditions; not the other way round.
I think the High Court bailiffs might have more powers than the normal county court ones.

Paul you are being very unfair to the owners.

The typical home owner should not have to know the eviction process and how to thwart official action to repossess their house.

This is exactly why financial matters (eg mortgages) relating to your own home is regulated - to protect the consumer.

-
Well you do your researchdon't you.
One free phone call to nationaldebtline would have solved the problem.
The modern world requires people to be on their guard against banks etc.
Even CAB would have helped.
I have NO sympathy for people who stick their head in the sand and then find themselves stitiched up.
If they came onto this site they would have been inundated with correct advice.
These homeowners are the sort of idiots who would pay for debt advice and management. when it is available ALL for FREE!
Ignorance will always be taken advantage of.
I would have thought they might have done a bit more to sort their accommodation problems out.
NEVER trust a bank.

It was an administrative and human error of judgement. Unless you are implying the bank are repossessing just because they can?

AH! if it was a bank muck up I would be seeking compensation from them for removing the property owners from the property illegally.

I know how long it takes to get people out of property; months, not hours!!!
However there is clearly a problem as Lisa has emphasised.
Imagine ALL the homeowners who are 'accidental LL' who have not obtained consent to let.
I would say they are in their hundreds of thousands.
Indeed it you removed from the lettings market all properties which do NOT have a consent to let and all the BTL properties which are being lived in as a PPR by the LL there would be mass homelessness and downvaluing of property owned by banks.
Can't see banks want to stir up a hornets nest; they would all be stung to death!!
I don't think many borrowers will have much to concern themselves with.
The point is don't rub a bank's nose in it; keep the mortgage payments going and the bank should not concern themselves with borrowers.
Don't pay them and expect the bank to start nosing arround.

That's all well and good paul but you are missing an important point - if they have not got consent to let they are breaching the terms of the mortgage, end of.

They could lose the house.

Their house insurance may be invalid - a bit costly if there is a fire.

Their PI insurance may be invalid in the event of a claim.

Their HMO license will be invalid, if they are daft enough to HMO on a resi mortgage.

Shock horror their RGI insurance - we can be the saviour of all and the magic bullet against all any any eventuality and one never to be missed (*) will be invalid.




(*) personally I self insure. It would cost me around £4000 a year to RGI my own tenancies. I don't lose this much per year through non payers.

Yes I agree playing fast and loose with mortgages could cost the LL dear; accidental or not.
I think removing these properties from the letttings market would cause lots of the accidental ones to be bankrupted and tenants will be homeless.
Most people don't plan to get involved in this effective mortgage fraud; they really have no alternative.
Given the same circumstances I would do the same.
There are of course those risks you mention but personally I would take them rather than lose a house because my work took me somewhere where my house wasn't.
In a dead housing market with restricted loan criteria one has little choice.
Lenders only have to give permission irrespective of who the occupant is and not charge extra interest.or require additional equity.
Until this happens property owners will be forced to play fast and loose with mortgage conditions, by ignoring them.
More property owners will continue to behave in this manner whilst the recession and credit restrictions last.
That is a perrenial reality which will NOT go away.
I think we will be in for a couple of lost decades and these mortgage problems will remain.
There is little alternative than for these unfortunate property owners to do what they can to hang onto those properties and stuff the mortgage conditions.

FYI

further info from my broker pal on the couple that Accord evicted based on nothing more than suspicion of letting out their main res

"yes it's all true, not only that but the husband has MS and some days are better than others, which is why he did not pay hard ball with the bailiffs and let them into the property."

These people weren't landlords who may be expected to be a bit more savvy when it comes to knowing their rights, they were just normal people who aren't anywhere near as confident as most of us would be when confronted by officialdom, it never hurts to be aware of that.