So I know most landlords have had to deal with the prospect of a tenant vanishing in the night, so I ask the question.

Is it worth chasing them?

I have about £2500 in lost rent and costs (readying the property for the next tenant). The deposit has been handed over to me from the agent.

My tenants were fine until the main bread winner lost his job. They struggled along and went into arrears and paid some back, but the tide went out rather than in.

They posted the keys to the agent and have walked away. Note the agent tried to communicate with them prior to this with no response. I think if I was managing it myself a face to face conversation may have helped (as per Jonathan Clarke's standard approach)

So what do I do? Try trace them and go down the court route?

I'm thinking that in this instance what have I got from giving the letting agent for handing over 11% of my rent? I few letters/calls,whereby if I managed them myself it would involve a more personal approach face to face.

Read a couple of threads about attaching debts to benefits and going down the court route, but really how many times does it pay off?

So do I act like a dog with a bone or shrug it off??

Hope you can provide input from both sides of the scales!
Cheers
Craig

Hi Craig

What a hassle for you

I would act like a dog with a bone and do at least a bit of ankle snapping as at the 2.5k level its worth a little chasing their tail and see what comes out of the woodwork. Check out what post comes through the door they wont have bothered forwarding it probably and that might offer some clues as to their movements. Sometimes you get mail there which shows they attend Zumba classes every Wednesday at 7.30pm at the local dancing club for instance. You can show up there as well and see the shock on their faces. They may have made mates with the neighbours so knock on a few doors and they may let slip they were moving to the such and such estate. If you know what car they drive then a tour round there may reveal their whereabouts. This worked for me once. All you need is the local gossip and a tenner in your pocket and someone will spill the beans.

If no joy wait a month until they have registered all their stuff at their new address and are more traceable.
Then contact http://www.findermonkey.co.uk/ and for about £50 they will search all relevant databases. If they come up with a forwarding address local to you, you could knock on the door and have a chat and try to negotiate a weekly sum. Failing that send a debt collector round or / and put a formal letter through their door offering a settlement. Failing that £25 should get you a solicitors letter to reinforce the message to show you are serious.

Most people want an escape route without going to court. That includes me as well as them and as long as the weekly sum you demand is within their budget I find most will pay that off rather than face the stress of court and a CCJ against their name

Good Luck

What makes business sense to you? The court fees for a £2500 claim would be a minimum of £285, and say £50 to trace them. If you haven't protected yourself with a guarantor then you will be lucky to get £5-10 a month from benefit claimants - so 4 years to break even & 31 years to repay excluding interest - and that's assuming you can keep track of them! A warrant on goods often sounds like a good idea, but can be suprisingly ineffective. 2nd-hand plasma TVs are virtually worthless according to most County Court Bailiffs and they won't touch a car over 5 years old. Of course, if the tenants get jobs, that changes.

You have 6 years to make a decision, so it may be worth giving it a few years then paying out the £50 and seeing if you can do some detective work into their circumtances then - they may have got a job as Housing Minister!

Only the current landlord can attach a debt to state benefits

Here is some information given by richard.gore@gregglatchams.com when this question came up in another discussion. I did not know about this and I found it very helpful.

Do you have the tenants' bank details? Did they pay by cheque at any point or bank transfer?
If so you may be able to get a third party debt order against the bank account if there is money in there. Cost £100 to the court.
Don't forget your judgments have a life of 6 years so you can still take action for some time.
Have you got any guarantors you can pursue for payment?

Form N349 from the court – found here – http://hmctsformfinder.justice…..rms_id=573
It only works if the bank account is in the tenant's sole name and has money in it at the time the order is served.
The court makes an interim order and serves this on the bank. The bank is required to confirm within a period of time whether they have the money in the account and they will freeze it pending a hearing when hopefully the order is made final and the money can be released.
It is all fairly straightforward but you may find you waste the £100 if there is no money there!


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With regard to Marys post, a third party debt order is indeed viable, BUT

Income from benefits is not frozen by the banks and is not included in the Interim Order.

If there is any money left, the bank take their handling fee from the account before replying to the court (iro £50) and anecdotally, the courts tend to be quite generous to the judgement debtor if an application is made to release some of the frozen funds (my 5yo needs new shoes!).

TPDO against a solvent guarantor - excellent idea!

Thanks Mary/Jonathan/Dave,

Thanks for the info. Given that a court order lasts for 6 years then its definitely worth spending some money to try chase it down.

Given that the husband was employed, but got made redundant, would suggest he will get another job in the future, Dont think they will be long term benefit claimants.

I've found them on facebook but without 'making friends' with them I cant see too much info (other than pictures of them in the lounge of the property with a rather nice plasma TV in the background. I am going to send them a friend request as they have been dealing with the letting agent and may not know my name and see what happens.

Other than that I'm going to contact the DWP and try to get some info from them. I know Dave you said that only the current landlord can claim money from benefits, but I'm just going to try get an address for them so I can get the court process moving. Basically I'll tell the DWP that they were ex tenants and I need their new address as there is post to forward on to them.

Mary - The link you provided has been cut short, can you pm it to me or update the thread with the form name and ill search for it. I havent previously got guarantors for my tenants, just trusted that the chacks the letting agent performs has been sufficient. I'm going to ask for this for all new tenants and also looking at the option of rent guarantee insurance.

Moving off topic.....

Overall it's been a catalyst regards my use of letting agents. I don't feel the tenants have any personal attachment with an agent and dont have any guilt in behaving in the manner they have done in this instance. But if they were dealing face to face with the landlord then it becomes more personal, especially when you explain that the rent they pay is required to cover the mortgage/insurance/maintenance costs etc.

I've built my portfolio up to a point where my personal monthly costs are pretty much covered and I have 2 more properties in the pipeline, so I'm planning to semi retire from my day job next year and will then have time to manage the properties myself (increasing my cashflow by a further £600-£700 per month).

This is stage two of my long term strategy (to the jonathan clarke of halifax!!) to fully pack in the day job. I've got a nice lump of capital built up to continue to grow my portfolio, with selective purchasing of run down properties which I can renovate and have little or no money left in.

18 months and I reckon I'll be there.

Cheers
Craig

(23-09-2012 08:36 AM)craig766789166 Wrote:  month).

This is stage two of my long term strategy (to the jonathan clarke of halifax!!) to fully pack in the day job. I've got a nice lump of capital built up to continue to grow my portfolio, with selective purchasing of run down properties which I can renovate and have little or no money left in.

18 months and I reckon I'll be there.

Cheers
Craig

Excellent. Keep up the good work - 18mths will soon fly by. Almost there.
Slow and steady does it.
Keep focused. Busy now. Lazy later

(23-09-2012 08:36 AM)craig766789166 Wrote:  Thanks Mary/Jonathan/Dave,

Thanks for the info. Given that a court order lasts for 6 years then its definitely worth spending some money to try chase it down.

Given that the husband was employed, but got made redundant, would suggest he will get another job in the future, Dont think they will be long term benefit claimants.

I've found them on facebook but without 'making friends' with them I cant see too much info (other than pictures of them in the lounge of the property with a rather nice plasma TV in the background. I am going to send them a friend request as they have been dealing with the letting agent and may not know my name and see what happens.

Other than that I'm going to contact the DWP and try to get some info from them. I know Dave you said that only the current landlord can claim money from benefits, but I'm just going to try get an address for them so I can get the court process moving. Basically I'll tell the DWP that they were ex tenants and I need their new address as there is post to forward on to them.

Mary - The link you provided has been cut short, can you pm it to me or update the thread with the form name and ill search for it. I havent previously got guarantors for my tenants, just trusted that the chacks the letting agent performs has been sufficient. I'm going to ask for this for all new tenants and also looking at the option of rent guarantee insurance.

Moving off topic.....

Overall it's been a catalyst regards my use of letting agents. I don't feel the tenants have any personal attachment with an agent and dont have any guilt in behaving in the manner they have done in this instance. But if they were dealing face to face with the landlord then it becomes more personal, especially when you explain that the rent they pay is required to cover the mortgage/insurance/maintenance costs etc.

I've built my portfolio up to a point where my personal monthly costs are pretty much covered and I have 2 more properties in the pipeline, so I'm planning to semi retire from my day job next year and will then have time to manage the properties myself (increasing my cashflow by a further £600-£700 per month).

This is stage two of my long term strategy (to the jonathan clarke of halifax!!) to fully pack in the day job. I've got a nice lump of capital built up to continue to grow my portfolio, with selective purchasing of run down properties which I can renovate and have little or no money left in.

18 months and I reckon I'll be there.

Cheers
Craig

Here is the link again http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HM...rms_id=573

I have used this legislation to obtain the tenants new address from a local authority who said that the information was covered by Data Protection and refused to give it. As soon as they were given this link they agreed to provide the information

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/35

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(23-09-2012 09:44 AM)Mary Latham Wrote:  have used this legislation to obtain the tenants new address from a local authority who said that the information was covered by Data Protection and refused to give it. As soon as they were given this link they agreed to provide the information

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/section/35

Again adding to Marys post - section 35 allows the DWP/local authority to release details, it does not compel them to.

These guys will find your tenants for £50 - no find, no fee. http://www.findermonkey.co.uk. I've used them and have no hesitation recommending.