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I was sitting thinking about Business Again this Morning
and I have realised because of Govt plans I have become a Tax Dodger
I have always played my Business with a straight bat Paid my Income Tax every 6 months and had no complaints
I don't think I have ever broken the rules and tried to be a Good Landlord
But since Dear George announced S24 I have done nothing more than Planning to avoid Taxation
I would much rather spend my time providing good homes to customers and getting on with my life
The HMRC will have more tax from me in the long run
But the Govt will lose out in the long run
I will just not invest in property and stop providing homes
Maybe this is what the Govt wants but they are going about this in a very complicated manner
If the Govt don't want my imput and my money in BTL why not be up front about the matter and honest
My own feeling is Yes they have hit leveraged Landlords but they have given Landlords the opportunity to form a company which is more tax efficient using pensions ect
The Govt are totally mad in my opinion all they had to do was make PRA Tougher and set Stamp duty at 15% and tax Land and property at 70%
That would have had the same result as S24
I don't like being a Tax Dodger But what choice do I have with a Govt who can not see any sense
George you have a lot to answer for.
Learn Change and Adapt ?????
Tax avoidance is something big corporates do to increase profits.
Do all the tax avoiding you can.
Don't feel guilty about it
If you can't beat em
Yes it makes you amoral
You've been forced into such a position.
Doesn't seem to bother the executives of Google; Starbucks, etc, etc.
So get on avoiding as much as you can for as long as you can.
Everyone is at it!
... until Section 24 is applied to limited companies!That rumour is still doing the rounds.
Vanessa Warwick Landlord and Co-Founder of PropertyTribes.com **If you have got value from Property Tribes, find out how you can support it in remaining a free to use community resource**
Cor! Yes if that comes about the cat will be in amongst those pigeons! !!
I reckon you get a good inside track on a lot of stuff.
So it wouldn't surprise me what you state occurs!!
Time to start selling up chaps and deleverage as much as you can!!
The Pigeons are coming home Paul
Ltd Co will only have a short lived advantage
In Ten years we will see S24B Rent Control and Taxation on Ltd Co
This is the main reason I am side stepping BTL and taking every pound I can away from BTL and investing in other areas
we are a ticking time bomb and for the Landlords who think they have a sound future YOU HAVENT ????
Rumor denied by the government.
_________________________________________________________________________The above post is not financial advice, its often me rambling - passing time on a coffee break.If you are looking for the Best BTL Mortgage? Call the Specialist Team at Bespoke Finance._________________________________________________________________________
I agree with you it has to come to Ltd Co too
give it 10 years and all interest will not be tax deductible
S24 can't be applied to ltd companies as long as there is only 1 rate of corporation tax. That is surely the only reason it has not already been done.
Labour have proposed going back to two rates of corporation tax. That might well come with S24 for companies.
``and I have realised because of Govt plans I have become a Tax Dodger``
``I will just not invest in property and stop providing homes``
``If the Govt don't want my imput and my money in BTL why not be up front about the matter and honest``
`Dodge` can mean evade depending which dictionary you consult which is illegal so I`m sure you are not advocating that
Just `avoiding` tax is of course perfectly legal but some avoidance is viewed as morally questionable by big companies whereas as your avoidance is I`m sure perfectly justifiable in the circumstances
Your pretty big in the property world but I fear not that big to make George change his mind.
Will he go home tonight ( if he was still in post ) and say..... Dam I completely forgot to factor DL into my thinking.
That changes everything. I will make an announcement tomorrow to the Commons
Other LL`s will be delighted you have stepped out the ring for a while as it gives them a chance in the NE
They will buy the homes you don`t want now
They probably dreaded bumping into you at viewings as you looked to steal their aspirations
S24 is up pretty up front. They publicly announced the policy
That`s how they let you know they dont want you as much as they did
Did you expect a face to face meeting with George over a cup of Tea perhaps
If I dont buy my bananas at Tesco today - Tesco will survive my boycott I`m sure
Other customers will have the pick of the bunch so I lose out
Call off your boycott .Come back in out of the cold DL and start buying again.
The Estate Agents miss you I`m sure
Tax is Tax
Jonathan Clarke. http://www.buytoletmk.com
I haven't broken the Law and I don't intend too
we used to live in a world which worked on a three line account
You made Money you claimed expenses and you paid profit simple and fair
this is no longer the case in the UK
BTL is a ticking bomb it has a window of around 10 years then we will have S24b Rent Control and New Taxes on Ltd Co
I intend to take the opportunity of ten years to salt away profits into Tax Free Investments and pensions
It will give me the buffer I need to walk away from BTL If I need too
What I have I will keep but I will not rely on it paying for my old age
If I am wrong ? I will still have BTL as a bonus and it will be good to pass it down to a Family Trust
I cant see any reason why I could be wrong on this JC even Vanessa can see further taxes on Ltd Co and S24b will come and will possibly put you out business
Adam the Mortgage Broker also agrees Amateur Landlords are not wanted either
More and more of us can see where this is heading but you cant for some reason ??
``More and more of us can see where this is heading but you cant for some reason ?? ``
I must be just thick I guess .
You see a doomsday black hole scenario where 2 million LL`s become zero LL`s
I see a more level playing field scenario where maybe 2 million LL`s become 1 million
Thats 1 million LL`s continuing to invest in the PRS
I dont believe the government wants to wipe out the PRS
Its a cull to curb growth not a massacre to bring about extinction
Also I see when the homeless stack up 10 feet deep on the roadside or tent cities have to be erected or we run out of B&B space then the public outcry will reach fever pitch and conciliatory measures will be offered. Just LL`s complain for now but our complaints are based on just our financial pain. That doesnt win much sympathy when one has done well to date
We will be joined in time though I believe by those whose bigger picture is dealing with the maintaining of peoples quality of life as their pain is much more palpable and will force government change - Tenants, MP`s Shelter , Crisis, Councils , Social Services, Police , Education, Church, Probation , Prisons NHS will join us .
These organisation pick up the welfare fallout and will reluctantly and maybe begrudgingly begin to see that a vibrant healthy PRS is an asset to society. We don`t like traffic wardens when we get a ticket except when they put a ticket on a car blocking my private drive. Then we realise they do a fair job for all . We dont like a magistrate who may ban me from driving for doing 80 in a 60 but if my child gets injured by a speeding driver and gets sent down then they have done a good job.
I understand I am viewed by many as a greedy LL but I am also simultaneously a life saver to a tenant when yesterday I placed a long term sofa surfer in a flat of their own . They loved me for it .They had tried for 6 mths and were on the verge of depression and despair . When more and more start to back us robustly then the government will back off
They traditionally go into legislation heavy handed then wait for the fall out and the feedback
Then depending on strength of that fallout they put in amendments and clauses here there and everywhere
They can then take the credit ( often just before election ) for saying they are listening to concerns and adding concessions
I get my AST right first time. I don`t go there 4 mths in and say ooh I forgot can i add this clause or take away that clause
Its a game they play partly because they are politicians but partly because the scale of the problem is so large they dont have the answer
Its impossible for any one government to assess the impact of S24 before hand. They just make a guess and wait then tinker
We agree I think there there are still many many LL`s unaware of S24 so S24 hasnt even begun to tighten its grip yet. It still has 3 yrs to run so there is just no need for your S24B yet unless its to cut of your escape route to a limited company .If too many LL`s follow you then its a leak that may need to be stopped as it has avoided the original intention of the legislation Much legislation has loopholes. Ltd companies may be one
But its not just me
1000`s of intelligent switched on high net worth investors hold a different view to you. They still invest
But you see them as thick as well as they clearly, like me cannot see where its heading