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  • Tax

    George you have made me a Tax Dodger

    I was sitting thinking about Business Again this Morning

    and I have realised because of Govt plans I have become a Tax Dodger

    I have always played my Business with a straight bat Paid my Income Tax every 6 months and had no complaints

    I don't think I have ever broken the rules and tried to be a Good Landlord

    But since Dear George announced S24 I have done nothing more than Planning to avoid Taxation

    I would much rather spend my time providing good homes to customers and getting on with my life

    The HMRC will have more tax from me in the long run

    But the Govt will lose out in the long run

    I will just not invest in property and stop providing homes

    Maybe this is what the Govt wants but they are going about this in a very complicated manner

    If the Govt don't want my imput and my money in BTL why not be up front about the matter and honest

    My own feeling is Yes they have hit leveraged Landlords but they have given Landlords the opportunity to form a company which is more tax efficient using pensions ect

    The Govt are totally mad in my opinion all they had to do was make PRA Tougher and set Stamp duty at 15%  and tax Land and property at 70%

    That would have had the same result as S24

    I don't like being a Tax Dodger But what choice do I have with a Govt who can not see any sense

    George you have a lot to answer for.


    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    Tax avoidance is something big corporates do to increase profits.

    Do all the tax avoiding  you can.

    Don't feel guilty about it

    If you can't beat em

    Join em!!

    Yes it makes you amoral

    So what!?

    You've been forced into such a position.

    Doesn't seem to bother the executives of Google; Starbucks, etc, etc.

    So get on avoiding as much as you can for as long as you  can.

    Everyone is at it!


    ... until Section 24 is applied to limited companies!

    That rumour is still doing the rounds.


    Cor!  Yes if that comes about the cat will be in amongst  those pigeons! !!

    I reckon  you get a good inside track on a lot of stuff.

    So it wouldn't surprise  me what you state occurs!!

    Time to start selling up chaps and deleverage as much as you can!!


    The Pigeons are coming home Paul

    Ltd Co will only have a short lived advantage

    In Ten years we will see S24B Rent Control and Taxation on Ltd Co

    This is the main reason I am side stepping BTL and taking every pound I can away from BTL and investing in other  areas

    we are a ticking time bomb and for the Landlords who think they have a sound future YOU HAVENT ????


    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    Rumor denied by the government.



    The above post is not financial advice, its often me rambling - passing time on a coffee break.
    If you are looking for the Best BTL Mortgage? Call the Specialist Team at Bespoke Finance.


    I agree with you it has to come to Ltd Co too

    give it 10 years and all interest will not be tax deductible


    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    S24 can't be applied to ltd companies as long as there is only 1 rate of corporation tax. That is surely the only reason it has not already been done.

    Labour have proposed going back to two rates of corporation tax. That might well come with S24 for companies.



    ``and I have realised because of Govt plans I have become a Tax Dodger``

    ``I will just not invest in property and stop providing homes``

    ``If the Govt don't want my imput and my money in BTL why not be up front about the matter and honest``

    `Dodge` can mean evade depending which dictionary you consult which is illegal so I`m sure you are not advocating that

    Just `avoiding` tax is of course perfectly  legal but some avoidance is viewed as morally questionable by big companies  whereas as your avoidance is  I`m sure perfectly justifiable in the circumstances

    Your pretty big in the property world  but I fear not that big  to make George change his mind.

    Will he go home tonight ( if he was still in post ) and say..... Dam I completely forgot to factor  DL into my thinking.

    That changes everything. I will make an announcement tomorrow to the Commons

     Other LL`s will be delighted you have stepped out the ring for a while as it gives them a chance in the NE

    They will buy the homes you don`t want  now

    They probably dreaded bumping into you at  viewings as you looked to steal their aspirations

    S24 is up pretty up front. They publicly announced  the policy

    That`s  how they let you know they dont want you as much as they did

    Did you expect a face to face meeting with George over a cup of Tea perhaps

    If I dont buy my bananas at Tesco today - Tesco will survive my boycott I`m sure

    Other customers will have the pick of the bunch so I lose out

    Call off your boycott .Come back in out of the cold DL and start buying again.

    The Estate Agents miss you I`m sure

    Tax is Tax


    Jonathan Clarke. http://www.buytoletmk.com

    I haven't broken the Law and I don't intend too

    we used to live in a world which worked on a three line account

    You made Money you claimed expenses and you paid profit  simple and fair

    this is no longer the case in the UK

    BTL is a ticking bomb it has a window of around 10 years then we will have S24b Rent Control and New Taxes on Ltd Co

    I intend to take the opportunity of ten years to salt away profits into Tax Free Investments and pensions

    It will give me the buffer I need to walk away from BTL If I need too

    What I have I will keep but I will not rely on it paying for my old age

    If I am wrong ? I will still have BTL as a bonus and it will be good to pass it down to a Family Trust

    I cant see any reason why I could be wrong on this JC even Vanessa can see further taxes on Ltd Co and S24b will come and will possibly put you out business

    Adam the Mortgage Broker also agrees Amateur Landlords are not wanted either

    More and more of us can see where this is heading but you cant for some reason ?? 



    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    ``More and more of us can see where this is heading but you cant for some reason ?? ``

    I must be just  thick I guess .

    You  see a doomsday black hole scenario where 2 million LL`s become zero LL`s

    I see a more level playing field scenario where maybe 2 million LL`s become 1 million

    Thats 1 million LL`s continuing to invest in the PRS

    I dont believe the government wants to wipe out the PRS

    Its a cull to curb growth not a  massacre to bring about extinction

    Also I see when the homeless stack up 10 feet deep on the roadside or tent cities have to be  erected or we run out of B&B space then the public outcry will reach fever pitch and conciliatory measures will be offered. Just LL`s complain for now but our complaints are based on just our financial pain.  That doesnt win much sympathy when one has done  well to date

    We will be joined in time though I believe  by those whose bigger picture is dealing with the  maintaining of peoples  quality of life as their pain is much more palpable and will force government change  - Tenants, MP`s Shelter , Crisis, Councils , Social Services,  Police , Education, Church, Probation , Prisons NHS will join us .

    These organisation  pick up the welfare fallout and will reluctantly and maybe begrudgingly begin to see  that a vibrant healthy PRS is an asset to society. We don`t like traffic wardens when we get a ticket   except when they put a ticket on a car blocking my private drive.  Then we realise they do a fair job for all . We dont like a magistrate who may ban me from driving for doing 80 in a 60  but if my child gets injured by a speeding driver  and  gets sent down then they have done a good job.

    I understand I am viewed by many as a greedy LL but I am also simultaneously a life saver to a tenant when yesterday I placed a long term sofa surfer in a flat of their own . They loved me for it .They had tried for 6 mths and were on the verge of depression and despair .  When more and more  start to back us  robustly then the government will back off

    They traditionally go into legislation  heavy handed then wait for the fall out and the feedback

    Then depending on strength of that fallout  they put in amendments and clauses here there and everywhere

    They can then take the credit ( often  just before  election ) for saying they are listening to concerns and adding concessions

    I get my AST right first time. I don`t go there 4 mths in and say ooh I forgot can i add this clause or take away that clause

    Its a game they play partly because they are politicians but partly because the scale of the problem is so large they dont have the answer

    Its impossible for any one government to assess the impact of S24 before hand. They just make a guess and wait then tinker

     We agree I think there  there are still many many LL`s unaware of S24   so S24 hasnt even begun to tighten its grip yet. It still has 3 yrs to run so there is just no need for your S24B yet unless its to cut of your escape route to a limited company .If too many  LL`s follow you  then its a leak that may need to be stopped as it has avoided the original  intention of the legislation  Much legislation has loopholes. Ltd companies may be one 

    But its not just me

    1000`s of intelligent switched on high net worth investors hold a different view to you. They still invest

    But you see them as thick as well as  they clearly, like me  cannot see where its heading


    Jonathan Clarke. http://www.buytoletmk.com