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  • Buy-to-Let

    Proposals by a Tory Govt to make tenants pay 10% of their LHA!

     Therein lies the problem with PSL

    The councils don't return the properties in original condition

    Invariably it is trashed despite what any inventory states.

    Councils say nothing to do with us Guv it was like that when we took over

    Getting a council to acknowledge  and deal with its responsibilities  is harder than getting blood out of a stone! !!

    We have some LL  on here who advise not to be a PSL LL  following  their experiences.

    Working  with councils is very risky


    Yes I saw that thread so extra security is required maybe

    Take a 10K deposit


    Jonathan Clarke. http://www.buytoletmk.com

    Do you reckon many councils if any would offer a £10000 deposit!?

    They hate private LL

    They won't do anything to help LL  even though it helps the council.

     Can't see any council offering any assistance  to LL and definitely  not anywhere near what you suggest


    I agree it wont happen - well not in my lifetime - but it could / would if they were willing and open

    But they are for now a closed book - That book  will only open if public pressure or political ambition shifts

    The culture shift at the moment  for them would be so great it will  take a generation to come about

    But public private partnerships  ( PPP`s ) do  exist all over the place



    My current PPP`s with them are  very crude, basic, ad hoc,  weak  haphazard amateurish

    They piggy back onto my asset which saves them having to build and maintain their own asset base

    It has advantages for both . They save a 200K outlay I get  yield capital growth and  security finance

    £1450 has dropped into my account today That`s a form of PPP

    The PPP deal is that I submit a form and  they fund the rent and deposit up front for a low wage worker

    In return I give the low wage worker  a house for 6 mths so the state doesnt have to

    Thats the end of this PPP  its a one off instant arrangement

    Other more involved  PPP `s  I have with them are when they fund not only rent in advance and the deposit but also pay off the arrears and pay DHP top ups on LHA for 12 mths

    In return I give up my  house for a 12 mth period so the state doesnt have to physically house them

    After 12 mths our PPP ends unless its renewed

    So that has happened with me about 5 times or so since HB caps came on the scene

    I  got  2K up front and 5K arrears from DHP . This  PPP  enabled the state not  having to house a family of 6

    All my LHA direct is an ongoing  form of PPP  - it   sometimes works well - sometimes it doesnt

    I can envisage in the future a board meeting when we mutually iron out the problems of our PPP

    I make demands as do they. We negotiate and then sign a PPP

    But we are poles away from that at the moment because they dont want it and are intransigent

    UC is a backward step away from a PPP as there is less to connect us now

    UC offers me no incentive to PPP with the government hence I stop taking UC 

    And i dont see another private body taking up the UC tenants any time soon

    So UC wont survive in its present form so something will have to change

    If the PRS was better organised and managed and under one roof then a PPP with UC could flourish

    But we are only 20 years old and still a ramshackle bunch of  oddities

    The government is 100`s  of years old but is a better orgainised ramshackle bunch of  oddities

    So they muddled along better than us and have power and influence over us so dictate proceedings

    A government minister wants to deal with an identifiable body with a spokesperson . They are busy people

    They want a PRS CEO to wine and dine and do a backroom deal before selling it to their respective  followers

    The time and  effort to deal with the likes of  even FW and his 1000 properties  in his hey day is too difficult

    And  FW is too much of a wild child so progressive dialogue is limited

    They want someone authoritative  who speaks with one voice for 2 million LL`s and we are a long way away from that

    So in another 20 years time  the 1 million LL`s left after the 2015 S24 cull  may form a recognised body

    All the big players like PT 118 RLA NLA etc etc would njeed to unite and we would sign up

    The PRS would become someone the government can now deal with as they represent the vast majority

    But for now we are in a bloody war.

    Our equivalent to the miners Battle of Orgreave was our  judicial review which failed

    But the abject failure of UC will be our rear guard action.

    As we retreat  it will be the tenants that will be our voice

    It will be the likes of Shelter Crisis Centrepoint  Emmaus who will come to our aid

    They like us need to unite against the cruel government

    Then together as the  Salvation Army we will rise  again

    With a  Common Purpose and Common Sense we will prevail


    Jonathan Clarke. http://www.buytoletmk.com

    I totally agree with your sentiments and the logicality of your offer is overwhelming.

    Now your PPP which makes eminent sense is regarded by all the usual LL  haters as being paid lots of Govt funds to pay your mortgage.

    That is how the narrow minded socialists see you.

    They seem to forget that had you not provided a property to rent then there wouldn't have been a LL  to pay any HB to and therefore the tenant would be homeless.

    Without your mortgage which has to be paid by someone there would be no rental property for any PPP.

    Of course all this is coded language for resenting the fact that if there was sufficient  social housing the State wouldn't have to find money to pay a greedy LL  mortgage and would have to pay less HB due to the taxpayer subsidising social rents.

    Well it isn't the private LL  fault that 2 million council properties have been sold and mass uncontrolled  immigration has been allowed!

    Rather than accepting we are where we are and that at least LL  have bothered to take on homeless tenants  the view persists that LL  are receiving billions in State aid to pay their mortgages.

    It is impossible  to get into the LL  haters heads that without LL  having mortgages there wouldn't be so many rental properties and consequently many homeless

    None of the tenants would be able to buy any of the LL properties otherwise they would have done so when the LL  was buying.

    The haters do not see the relationship you have with a HB tenant as anything other than greedy and avaricious one with the State subsidising your investments.

    We all know that is complete and utter rubbish.

    But it is this persistent and incorrect propaganda  which infests the neo liberal media establishment which has lead to S24 etc.

    Even Shelter agrees with S24 which by implication must and will reduce the supply of rental accommodation.

    Their twisted thinking defies belief!

    The councils want to have your facilities at the cheapest cost it can get away with and regards that it is doing you a favour if  it passes onto you  their wrongun homeless tenants.

    They know these tenants will default and cause destruction

    But they need a mug like  you to take on their wrongun tenants as keeping them in TA costs a fortune.

    They know that thanks to the eviction process they can palm off their robbing homeless tenants to a LL  who will take at least 7 months to evict  and before it becomes a council problem  again.

    Councils  think they are doing you a favour and consider you should be grateful for being paid to take on their wrongun tenants.

    Even the Tories now view you with great disdain.

    You are considered bizarrely to be part of the housing problem rather than any sort of solution

    You really couldn't make it up!!

    Councils shouldn't be surprised when LL  like you decide to withdraw  from any PPP when the income is insufficient  from HB.

    The fact that many councils are now attempting to encourage  LL  to house their homeless beggars belief.

    LL are rightly and logically rejecting the entreaties of these  Councils.

    Such LL  have realised there are bigger fish to fry.

    Ones that pay more rent  and don't cause the hassle that feckless HB  tenants do.

    LL  like you are reacting logically to changed business dynamics

    Why would councils consider that LL  would stay with the status quo.?

    It wouldn't  and doesn't make any business sense!

    So whilst you are currently  wanted which is still thoroughly resented they don't want to pay you the going rate.

    They seem to think you should use your private capital to provide an alternative to social housing with the council having none of the costs for the upkeep of such apart from paying a very poor price for their tenants to live in it.

    What planet are these Councils on that believe a LL  would continue with such provision when assailed by myriad new cost burdens  with the most iniquitous being  S24; supported by Shelter etc!!!!??

    Best thing you can do is wash your hands of them and their whole rotten processes and let to proper tenants who use their  own money to pay to be housed rather than the State's and don't cause as half as many  problems .

    You are effectively using your business  acumen to move away from a sector which fir your business has become increasingly dysfunctional.

    It would be strange if you didn't behave as you are!!

    As an astute LL  you have followed  a logical path away from the HB sector

    Why anyone would be surprised  at such a response greatly surprises me.

    Govt and councils have lost the plot and now they will be losing billions in very expensive  TA costs.

    They are economic minnows who can't work out what to the village idiot should be the correct response to the situation that they are causing.

    Of course one feels sorry for the real victims here of this whole situation. ......... the tenants.

    It isn't their fault!

    But the way issues are not being dealt with has caused a breakdown of that once fairly effective PPP.

    So now none of the parties involved are satisfied.

    Best thing LL  can do is get out of Dodge and leave the other remaining parties to stew in their own juice.

    It will be long long time; if ever before LL  will be persuaded  to return to Dodge!!

    To entice you to return it would have to be a pretty compelling  offer and that is unlikely to occur anytime soon.

    One thing  in your favour is proper tenants are moving out of London

    As you have expressed correctly  on many occasions the MK PRS is ideally suited to welcome to  MK  the tenants from London.

    Seeing the concrete cows will be the first sign of wildlife that many of these London tenants will have seen! !

    It isn't just homebuyers who are giving up on London

    The tipping point for tenants  has been reached.

    A quick 35 minute train journey to MK and you are away from the rat race

    I'm surprised  it has taken this long for London tenants to realise that they really don't need to live in an expensively rented box room.

    At least they will be able to see the light in MK etc unlike their gloomy London box room!!

    Once the council has lost you it won't be easy to entice you to return.

    You have been there;  seen it and done it and I hazard a guess you won't  feel inclined to return  to a sector where you are begrudgingly tolerated because you are actually needed.

    Hardly an attractive proposition  for you when you have better offers elsewhere!

    The days of a PPP for you are over

    You have been the victim of contemptuous behaviour by councils etc

    Why would you wish to continue with such circumstances!?

    The HB sector  will have lost a highly empathetic LL who is highly unlikely  to ever return.

    So a big loss if multiplied further by other HB LL  that have come to the same determinations as you.

    But these councils etc have brought it on themselves

    How long before they see the light!?

    I doubt they will ever manage to so entrenched are their anti -private LL views.

    Oh! Well tough luck HB tenants things are gonna get a lot worse for you!!


    18 years ago I saw HB tenants struggle and at the same time a business opportunity

    5% of me wanted to do my bit to help the strugglers of life  but 95% of me wanted to build a portfolio

    HB renters and low cost ex LA properties offered me to combine both goals and I got to work

    The extra effort to deal with the paperwork I saw as partially a business decision but partly to give vulnerable people a leg up to start afresh where others would walk on by. I`m good at sorting out other peoples s**t  so didnt mind taking  people out of hostels / prisons / cars / streets / tents . I had  good friend from my class at school with exactly the same opportunities as me but he got caught by the demon drink and drugs. He was in a mental mess but underneath he was good and true He spent a year in rehab and eventually sorted himself .

     So The business was good and it also gave me personal satisfaction..

    The  unspoken unsigned ad hoc   PPP was never great but we muddled through

    Then the government stuffed me . They Sec 24 me.  They LHA froze me. They HB capped me

    They knew what they were doing .

     £750 pcm rents down to  £2  pcm  due to HB Cap .

    But at least its direct I smiled defiantly as i lay on the ground  bruised from their kicking

    But that wasnt enough . They wanted more blood . So now they have UC`d me below the belt

    £650 rents for 2 years to me direct under LHA down now to £0 under UC for 4 mths.running. Shambles

    I have a growing sympathy now for the councils . I met with them the other day . They hang their heads with shame

    They are the poor foot soldiers picking up the generals mad orders

    In the corridors where the microphones are not on they slate the government

    Whichever side of the political spectrum they come from they see an unworkable UC system full of flaws

    Their workload has trebled they go off sick . Sec 21`s are piling in on their desk.

    Response time to my e mails are down by 300% when I chase them with a query as to why i havent been paid

    Strangely response time up 300% when I ask for rent and deposits up front and say i have a place

    They cant reply quick enough then

    The irony is I had one said  they were on the brink of despair couldn't cope and wanted to leave

    Wondered if I had a place to rent and they would go on PIP

    I would have taken them in the past but with UC structured the way it is  I will have to say sorry

    I hope IDS reads this and recognises the damage he has done

    He tried his best I`m sure but it wasnt good enough

    The sign of a true man is to hold his hands up say Sorry and start again

    Get a workable PPP together and we can be friends again. We all make mistakes



    Jonathan Clarke. http://www.buytoletmk.com

    UC is an admirable  attempt to overhaul the dysfunctional  welfare system which has grown up ad hoc since 1948.

    It's heart is in the right  place it is just the mechanics which haven't been worked out logically.

    The major failing with UC is the OBC is calculated with the the rent being the last payment to be calculated which of course gets you your vast £2 pcm rent!!!!

    As a former civil servant it would have been obvious to even me that the first payment to be deducted from the OBC was the HB.

    All other benefits  are then calculated

    If that means that the amount of child benefit works out at £2pcm then the tenant knows why

    They are renting in a too expensive area!!

    By calculating HB first it impresses on the tenant how much their lifestyle spending is reduced by choosing to live in an expensive area.

    It should therefore be obvious to even the simplest UC claimant that to recover  their full lifestyle  benefit spending money they will need to move to where the rent is cheaper and doesn't take them past the OBC.

    Effectively the UC claimant has to make a decision  to ECONOMICALLY cleanse themselves to a cheaper rental area!

    Of course  all this could be avoided if these UC claimants  did at least 16 hrs work a week.

    But they can't even be bothered to do that and moan about needing food banks when it is them causing the situation  cos they are just bone idle.

    Any fool can stand on a street corner selling the Big Issue for two days at 8 hrs per day.

    That is regarded as employment.

    You are now exempt  from the OBC and can continue with your feckless welfare lifestyle in expensive cities like London.

    This is a sacrifice  certain EU nationals have sussed and they have no issues with selling the BI for 2 days a week.

    Then they are OBC exempt! !