X

Sign Up

or

By signing up I agree to Property Tribes Terms and Conditions


Already a PT member? Log In

Sign Up

Sign Up With Facebook, Twitter, or Google

or


By signing up, I agree to Property Tribes Terms and Conditions


Already a PT member? Log In

Log In

or


Don't have an account? Sign Up

Forgot Password

To reset your password just enter the email address you registered with and we'll send you a link to access a new password.


Already a PT member? Log In

Don't have an account? Sign Up

  • In the Spotlight

    Regulation of the "wealth creation" industry

    For ten years now, Property Tribes and its community have been doing whatever they can do to create awareness of the issues surrounding what we call the "wealth creation" industry, as well as producing due diligence resources and knowledge around this part of the sector.

    However, sadly it appears that it is not enough.

    Given all the significant financial losses up to and including even the recent tragic loss of life that can be directly attributed to people getting involved in the "wealth creation" sector, there has to be something more than can be done to STOP this from happening again.

    Let us be clear - Property Tribes supports "authentic education" and there is always a place for this and we stand behind it and those companies who provide it.

    I previously shared my views on this topic here:  Property education, training, and mentoring

    But selling what amounts to a ticket to see a Unicorn to vulnerable people of limited financial means is totally deplorable behaviour.  

    Property mentees are getting into debt to undertake expensive education and mentoring with what appears to be a distinct lack of support and "duty of care" by the trainer or mentor.  

    These mentees are then left high and dry and even shut out from the mentor's network if they dare to seek support or complain and, according to his family, this is what had a direct impact on Danny Butcher taking his own life 10 days ago.  

    Danny not only lost money that he could ill afford to spend (£18K was borrowed on credit cars and loans) with nothing to show for it, he also lost his HOPE for a better future for his new wife and family.

    The sector does not just need some form of "kite mark" - it needs some form of robust regulation and a route of redress if things go wrong or services are not delivered upon.

    There is a lot happening behind the scenes, both in terms of industry stake-holder conversations and also media extensions, about what has happened.  Everyone is shocked and motivated to make a difference, however we need your help to do this.

    Remember, none of us is as smart as all of us, and community self-regulation still has an important role to play, but we need your help on one simple matter - what format should this regulation take?  Let's get some ideas together!

    To get the ball rolling, I spoke to my long time friend Paul Shamplina of Landlord Action about recent events and what we, as a caring and responsible part of the sector can do to ensure that we limit the exposure and risk of newcomers getting involved in what can only be described as disgraceful business practices and ethics. 

    These newbies can end up spending what amounts to the deposit on a property for "advice and education" that is not delivered upon and/or does not work in the current market conditions.


    We look forward to hearing your thoughts on this important topic.


    SEE ALSO  -          STOP! Don't pay for property education or mentoring until you have watched this!

    UP NEXT -             How to do due diligence on a property mentor

    DON'T MISS -        How the property gurus press your buttons

    NOW WATCH:

    2
    0

    [Image: 4995468760_6be86655d4_t.jpg]
    general operations director, site owner and moderator - propertytribes.com

    Very sad state of affairs and it just goes to show how serious the ramifications of poor advice are!

    I completely agree that for people with limited resources to spend thousands on "training" which actually sets them back in getting involved in property is absolute madness and those taking the money should be ashamed!

    Paul Mahoney

    MD

    Nova Financial Group


    0
    0
    Well to be honest, the government is more concerned about tightening rules and regulations on LL that others are losing their lives to these commitments i.e courses, mentors etc.

    The government should take this as a corporate responsibility rather than worrying about executing S24, S21's etc. Its pretty straight forward to be a mortgage advisor you need to be full Cemap qualified, to be a solicitor you need law qualifications and for accountants that are legit chartered accountants etc

    So what im saying is maybe there needs to be some sort of courses or accredited qualification before anyone can just start selling courses left right and centre, the problem we have in today's society this "Get Rich Quick" schemes and the way they are marketed people fall for it, as the world struggles financially people want FINANCIAL FREEDOM, so they are happy to jump on the first opportunity without any self learning and education.

    Property Tribes could be the place where this is accredited or approved by them. But another issue i see is property is mainly data orienated e.g stat and figures its no different to stock market i.e timing analysing data researching etc so not 100% how you could bench mark this.


    0
    0

    I need to highlight Mike Winnet's petition that he put up and 'the government' never approved it. By now we could have enough signatures to have this debated in Parliament
    0
    0

    "to be a mortgage advisor you need to be full Cemap qualified"

    Only if you are to advise on regulated mortgage products. Put simply Commercial Mortgages such as BTL do not require any "adviser" to be qualified.

    It's a strange anomaly & I point this out so people check the FCA Register to ensure their advisers are authorised.

    As whilst not mandatory for them to be on there its still best practice.

    1
    0

    _________________________________________________________________________


    My posts are not financial advice, just a rambling guy passing time on a coffee break.
    The team at Bespoke Finance offers advice, including Limited Company Buy-to-Let , HMO Conversion and Cheap Life Insurance.

    _________________________________________________________________________


    What happened to Mike Winnet's petition? He put it up then 5 people signed it and then the government took it down for review...
    0
    0

    Hi Andy,

    I wouldn't read too much into that. It's almost certainly been put on hold due to parliament being dissolved last night.  There is no government to debate this petition at the moment.  It should be put back on the table after the General Election, but rest assured that leading industry people are speaking to the powers that be on this issue, not to mention journalists and other media extensions.

    1
    0

    Nick & Vanessa,

    Wholeheartedly agree with the need for regulation but regulation needs to have some teeth, if it's to deter, and ultimately, deal with The Unscrupulous. 

    The intimidation by some of The Unscrupulous, once they're challenged, also has to be addressed - I don't think British law has caught up with the online world, to be able to truly challenge the intimidation and bullying that goes on. 

    And sadly, it almost goes without saying that the police don't have the resources to take the necessary action.  I've worked in the property sector for nearly 15 years now, and am always being asked to help those who have fallen prey to unscrupulous agents/companies. 

    Those who fall prey are usually intelligent, hard working, good people, frequently newcomers to the sector. The Unscrupulous are exceptionally good at persuasion and manipulation of the facts (not something to be proud of, for anyone reading this and patting themselves on the back). 

    Yes, we all need to work together on this, and the next government, whoever they may be, need to be educated about this issue, how far-reaching it is, and why it needs to be stopped in its tracks. 

    Thank you for bringing this to the fore, and my sincere condolences to Danny Butcher's loved ones.

    0
    0

    Helen Godbold-Eade

    Freelance Administrator for Property Investors / Entrepreneurs

    http://www.like-clockwork.co.uk

    Find me on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/heleneade/

    Whilst we know 'who' we're talking about generically, the regulation would require a definition of who it should apply. Which is difficult as regulation typically requires conformity, to establish a set of rules. I'm not sure the "Wealth Creation Industry" can be confined to a certain set of rules as it has no certain set of structure. Events/Forums/Groups/121/Seminars/Books/Video Series/etc..

    I like the idea as an idea. Next would be what kind of rules should it mandate? That is the starting point to show how it protects consumers.

    Perhaps one is to evidence affordability and eligibility to do what the "wealth creator" advises. In addition to evidence of the affordability of the course.

    0
    0

    _________________________________________________________________________


    My posts are not financial advice, just a rambling guy passing time on a coffee break.
    The team at Bespoke Finance offers advice, including Limited Company Buy-to-Let , HMO Conversion and Cheap Life Insurance.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    Possibly, in addition to affordability checks, have some kind of pre-course check on whether the potential student will have any chance of meeting the criteria for the strategy being taught. e.g. if lenders require prior experience in order to agree to lend on a particular strategy then it would be good for students to know this before paying for the course;

    if they will need ratification in place (e.g. in order to run a business within accepted guidelines (R2R  perhaps), then they should know these (and other) prerequisites before they set off on in their training journey.

    Some of the details around lender and business regulation constrains may be considered part of the ‘Content of the course’ but some kind of advanced screening (or consultation) to ascertain whether the course in question is suitable or entirely unsuitable for a student, given their personal circumstances, may help to avoid such debilitating (and sometimes tragic, sadly) ‘false starts’.

    Accepting of course (and reinforcing with the potential student) that they are ultimately responsible for their decisions/actions.

    I can’t see the questionable training companies self-policing this however.
    2
    0

    Interesting to read this post and comments.  

    Effective regulation is hard.  Governments are nervous about giving regulators too much power which often means otherwise good regulation is ineffective because it's too hard to enforce.  

    The regulator's case against Rick Otton in Australia is a good example.  

    Although Otton had been misleading his students and the public for over a decade, it took significant resources to successfully prosecute.  

    Although he represented that he'd made money and hundreds of his students had also (via testimonials) it took a large case to show that he couldn't provide any evidence at all that any of these claims were true. (the one student who gave evidence had two property deals which were subject to legal challenge, and later overturned by a court!).   

    One approach may be to give a regulator power to seek documented proof of claims by these people early on, without having to issue legal action first.  (more info at thenaysayer.net)

    1
    0