Paul great story, i love storys because they always have a more interesting and potent way of hitting home a point of view

Life is a matter of ones own philosophy, were all different and that's what makes life so interesting. As long as we all contribute in some way back to our fellow man and our community,  we dont inflict harm on others, then it matters not if one wants to just get by or one wants to build an empire. The only thing i would say though is that we all have a duty to 'contribute' in some way, we must all stand up and be counted, not just for others but for our own self worth. If we all decided not do anything and just take and receive all the benefits off the back of other peoples hard work, then mankind would still be living in caves.

Paul Barrett said:

Isn't life all about choices?

An analogy someone once told me was

An American  business tourist is on holiday in the Carribean and finds a man playing a guitat and lazing away in the sun.

Asked what he did; he advised he was a fisherman.

He went out everyday and received enough income to feed his family and look after things and he was perfectly content sitting on the beach playing his guitar without a care in the world.

This tourist said no you are doing it all wrong.

You should go tho the bank and borrow enough money to have several boats from which you will earn more  and employ other fisherman.

You will of course have to work very hard and eventually you should be able to retire with a decent pension  and be able to sit on the beach, playing your guitar without a care in the world........!!!!!!?

If you are on about wasting money in Brussels - Michael Ryan has an interesting take on it, also throwing in examples of their business aptitude. Very funny.

The 1st bold part below

I think of this in terms of the owners of capital versus those who use labour to provide their income. I think it is obvious to everyone that the bargaining position of those who labour has weakened considerably over the last number of years.  (Perhaps an unintended consequence of mass education or the lack or mass deaths in wars!!)

Wages for the average man have been stagnant in america for decades.

The 2nd bold part.

An often hear argument in the press is that of reducing corporation tax and other taxes to 'create jobs'

IMO it is the rich or super rich who are in a position to live and do nothing (as well as the maligned poor) but reducing taxes on the rich does not mean jobs will be created. Psychologically, I think, once you have made a fortune there is less of a reason to take risk with your capital to 'create jobs' if you have press savvy think tanks promoting your position politically and repeated ad infinitum and taxes are reducing you have already increased your income - why risk it?

Or if you include someone like Mitt Romney - super rich - who argues the position to reduce taxes - has he created jobs? Or has he asset stripped existing businesses to take all the money a la the original wall street film all those years ago?

I would not describe your sentiments as a 'noble wish' but a sensible political choice. A fairer taxation system for the poorer and those in smaller businesses which encourages them to take risks - and these are the people who are more prone to take risks and create jobs.

Their small business is also not of a size to move their profits offshore to pay less tax like vodafone and others (and perhaps be let off)

 The smaller business cannot compete with the larger business for numerous reasons similar to the above.

A smaller business is also likely to create jobs in this country and not move their services abroad 

etc etc

Try Norway have they pulled it off?

The 3rd bold bit -

This is why we need a citizens wage. so we can all get by while the owners of the robots take the cream. IDS is a prophet sent to save us all

Toby Marsden said:

i dont know enough about euro politics Vanessa to give any informed opinion but yes agreed if there are corrupt politicians in power then naturally they should be weeded out.....i am under no illusion, im sure that there is alot of corruption in Brussels hence why im a euro sceptic to a degree....

your comment of majority of 9-5 workers line the pockets of the super rich is a very general statement..!! my instincts tell me not to believe in such sweeping statements....as explained im not a conspiracist.....who knows mabe your right and im wrong, but its a huge complex subject that i doubt either of us could ever prove to be correct... and something i doubt you and me can change..... what's important is what we can change our own little world, for ourselves and our family.

The point im making Vanessa is we all need to believe we have hope and a chance to 'make it' if not what have we got?

you and i both know a lot of people who have made a successful living for themselves, so it must be true we all have a chance......

Also l think we need to define 'rat race' - in effect this means to go to work, we should celebrate this system, because i have been in third world countries where most people would give their right arm to be part of a rat race, and be able to go to work 9 - 5 everyday and eat and put a roof over their families head. We should celebrate we have a modern economy that affords millions of people the opportunity to make a living and serve one another. 

It is simply impossible to have a system where everyone can do nothing for their income. If we are arguing for a fairer share of wealth distribution, where the low paid get more and the rich get less, then who could argue with such a noble wish, of course we all wish to for everyone to have more, but with the way the world works in reality i no not of any political country or system that has managed to pull that one off and i doubt they ever will. Humans mankinds history is one of competition. Individuals compete, groups compete, businesses compete, countries compete. Competition drives innovation and as such humans will continue to achieve and invent amazing feats of engineering that enhance and rid the world of human suffering. i.e. in the 20th century the Plane, Penicillin, The Telephone and now the Internet.....it is only by having a 'rat race' whereby we all go to work and serve one another do WE all benefit as a whole. It is my observation that peoples lives have improved immeasurably over the last 100 years, we are are so much richer (materially) now and have far easier lives then our forefathers, and i would guess this will continue to improve over the next 100 years as mankind continues to evolve.  Maybe we will find a way to get robots to do most of the work and humans will have more than any time in history will be able to enjoy more freedom and leisure time. Do you agree or disagree?

Good post to the forum this.

Irrespective of any political leanings - we need UK interests to be more independent of Brussels (and not just around property either).

I posted this on a totally different forum this evening as I ran across it some months ago and it feels odd to post it twice in one night.  If you stick with the video (11 minutes of it) Dr David Harvey does raise some very good points about both the bigger picture of fiscal issues globally and what it means to industry globally and nationally  (and property at the end of the piece is an industry - it makes and sells stuff and relies on people to consume it). Given some of the very fair points raised by some on this thread - it makes sense to provide a link.  It got me thinking when I saw it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0Coming back onto topic - I cannot help but think - perhaps in his MEP capacity - Nigel could perhaps also help people in the UK who are saddled with overseas properties who were duped into bad fiscal products and dubious legal actions in countries such as Spain, Cyprus, Greece etcSome MEP's are showing interest in tackling this - but the prevailing problems in the administration of Europe currently are not making progress particularly 'swift'.

Well said Richard.  There should be as much "give" as "take" in our relationship with the European Union.BTW - interesting to note that the video has had over 1,000 views on YouTube alone, in just 24 hours.  I have had lots of very positive comments on other sites too.  Seems the people commenting like the "common sense" approach of Nigel.He is of the opinion that no immigrants should be able to claim benefits or use the health service UNTIL they have paid tax in this country for five years.At the moment, people are arriving in the U.K. and claiming benefits on Day 1 without having ever contributed anything.  They are also coming here with serious health issues and using our health service from Day 1 which is putting an even greater burden on the NHS.I agree that people should have contributed before they take from the system. 

Agreed, exactly my point earlier Vanessa, we all have to contribute!  You cant stand in front of the fire and expect heat, if you don't put any wood on the fire!

systems breakdown when people 'take' and don't 'give'....hence right now far too many capable people claiming housing & income benefit that the  system was not designed for and these people should not qualify for....hence our bankrupt government 

Thanks Andy.Richard - I have just been informed via twitter that Marta Andreasen of UKIP is involved in some work helping Brits with overseas property.  You might like to contact her?

I'm not too surprised.  UKIP has been steadily gaining ground for a while as it's focus is on UK and UK citizens. It's about time.  Today I understand David Cameron is championing Turkey to become EU28.  I just shake my head at this - what concern is it of the Conservative Party if Turkey join the EU or not?

Surely the more pressing matters are:  UK deficit (nearly £500bn and rising), UK unemployment (nearly 3m and rising), UK infrastructure (falling ever further behind comparable developed economies) and last (and my personal crusade) - improving the UK GDP (preferably by increased trading outside the EU and the USA).  Please go support/sort that out David before taking any more grandtstand issues on anything else (we're already going to probably lose a quarter of this year from our political figures whilst they lard it up around the 2012 Olympics as it is)!

As for the EU27 - there is huge disparity between the way in which each member state governs and self-regulates, all of that is going to be a generation (at least) before we see any real standardisation across the Continent. That's a massive job - and every member state takes their eye off their own sovreign issues at their peril.

Last - on the issue of benefits: In 2010 - 1/3 of UK households relied on benefit for over 50% of their income. That equated to about £200bn.  Now I learn that includes building houses for people in Poland.  Ted Heath - thanks so much - not!

More tax payer's money gone!!!Benefits cheat who swindled £50K in housing benefits owned a boat ... and luxury motorhome. 

How can you contact Marta? Vanessa said:

Thanks Andy.Richard - I have just been informed via twitter that Marta Andreasen of UKIP is involved in some work helping Brits with overseas property.  You might like to contact her?