Hi all!

A couple of months ago i posted with the title "negative pressure from loved ones" with the main focus being my partner and I not necessarily agreeing on my property investment goals. I have taken on board the excellent feedback and i am now ready to move forward. Sorry this will be a very long read so please bear with me, Ive been thinking this post up for a while! Please see the old link below:

http://www.propertytribes.com/negative-p...-5694.html

A little recap just incase, i am 25 and have a good job as a construction site manager, its something i worked so hard to get, when i succeeded i thought i was set for a life of work and promotions. However after going through a redundancy notice period in 2011(i didn't get made redundant) and realizing that the life i really want will never happen with my j.o.b. my mind started wondering and my goal of being involved in property was re-awoken! I say this as its something i have always wanted to achieve. Its quite strange really, hopefully some of you can relate to this, i do love what i do, i work for a great company and i have many prospects going forward however over the last 6 months my mindset and attitude has changed irreversibly i feel, which brings me on to Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I know its been said before but after reading this book it made sense of every thing i have been thinking.

Since then i have literally thought about property investment constantly for the last 6 months, first thing i think about when i wake up, last thing before i go to sleep. The job that i loved and was proud of, i no longer feel this way, i now feel the longer i work or don`t take action the less chance i have of achieving my aspirations. Its actually quite scary how my mindset has changed to be honest, it might sound silly but in writing this its a little bit of therapy really! Please don't get me wrong i don't think i can have one buy to let property and quit full time employment, i know its a process, but i don't want to be working in a couple of years time!

Anyway to the point of the post, i had some great responses and encouragement from everyone when i last posted and i feel i have achieved a mini milestone in bringing my partner around to my new mindset, not wholeheartedly but i am getting there! For anyone in the same position, i was just honest in saying, working all my life is not what i want to do and the life we want is not going to happen if we carry on as we are, just over broke! We spoke about earnings going up with outgoings meaning you never really get anywhere, and i also related my goals with our plans for our life together. The mistake i made the first time around was being too gung ho about my ideas and basically scared the crap out of her!

So if anyone is in the same boat i found; make sure the other person doesn't think its just some fad idea, talk about what you want from life and how you are realistically going to achieve it, do not be too gung ho and scare the other person with massive debts, mortgages etc and finally be very very persistent! I still want my partner to read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, when she does hopefully she will understand even more!

Now on to the second part of the post, sorry its so long! With some sort of renewed support from my partner i am looking to take action. In a nutshell, i have no money to invest, ha! However my car allowance is going to fund my property education instead of buying another depreciating liability in a car, so i can raise some finance! Can i please ask of you experienced property investors what you would do if you were 25, with all the drive and enthusiasm you hopefully need to make this thing work? I attend Leeds PIN, read YPN magazine, trawl the internet daily, have been in contact with people about rent to rent, lease options and have briefly spoke to a mortgage broker. This has been the last 6 months, i feel its time to do something about it now!

I personally think buying is out of the question, lease options and especially rent to rent appeal to me for obvious reasons, little cash required. Also JV`s with people, in my mind getting an education, making contacts, maybe rent to rent and JVing is the way forward! What are your thoughts guys? For me its got to be about education first surely, leading on from that any recommendations for mentors courses etc! Sorry its been such a long post, thank you for reading it!

Dan

Hi Daniel,

Thank you for the up-date and it's good to hear you have made some progress.

I admire all you are doing to learn as much about property as possible, but I want to caution you about spending what money you do have on expensive courses and mentoring.

Have a read of this: In contemplation of the alluring upsell

On another forum, I read a thread of a taxi driver who had spent £30K on education learning how to do JV's, leaftletting, lease options etc, but had not been able to do a single deal and was close to bankruptcy. It was a story all too familiar of wealth creation experts promising the world and delivering nothing. I don't want you to go down that route.

So from what not to do, to what to do:

Make like a sponge and learn as much as you can.

Start building relationships with other investors/landlords and property professionals - your income is the average of the 5 people you hang around with the most!

Practice stacking deals and finding deals with a view to passing these on for a fee. This will help you build your deposit.

Create a savings goal to aim to save a certain amount each year.

Rent a bigger house and sublet rooms to bring in an income and start honing your skills as a landlord.

The rent-to-rent strategy might be away forwards for you and I know Kim Stones runs a course on this. Angela Bryant has been on it so she might be able to give you some insights into whether it might work for you.

Hi Vanessa

Some very good points I think education can be learnt cheaply the course I run is only £495 and I have had some who have attended do deals which make them money quickly . I am honest and up front about what we do I can also advise on the dow and don'ts especially if working with lha I can also advise where to start your HMO Rent to Rent business.

Thanks.

Kim Stones

http://Www.kimstones.co.uk HMO Rent to Rent Course Saturday 20th October Doncaster call 0800 6335 333 to book places

(19-08-2012 06:29 PM)vanessa warwick Wrote:  Hi Daniel,

Thank you for the up-date and it's good to hear you have made some progress.

I admire all you are doing to learn as much about property as possible, but I want to caution you about spending what money you do have on expensive courses and mentoring.

Have a read of this: In contemplation of the alluring upsell

On another forum, I read a thread of a taxi driver who had spent £30K on education learning how to do JV's, leaftletting, lease options etc, but had not been able to do a single deal and was close to bankruptcy. It was a story all too familiar of wealth creation experts promising the world and delivering nothing. I don't want you to go down that route.

So from what not to do, to what to do:

Make like a sponge and learn as much as you can.

Start building relationships with other investors/landlords and property professionals - your income is the average of the 5 people you hang around with the most!

Practice stacking deals and finding deals with a view to passing these on for a fee. This will help you build your deposit.

Create a savings goal to aim to save a certain amount each year.

Rent a bigger house and sublet rooms to bring in an income and start honing your skills as a landlord.

The rent-to-rent strategy might be away forwards for you and I know Kim Stones runs a course on this. Angela Bryant has been on it so she might be able to give you some insights into whether it might work for you.

Hi Vanessa

Thanks for the down to earth advise, with my enthusiasm and goals i know it could be very easy to get sucked in to something. To be brutally honest i nearly did after a couple of months of research. The course was quite expensive, however it could be paid monthly, sometimes i sort of wish i did take the plunge as at least i would be doing something! On the other hand I did DD on the course, it wasn't a scam, i did the usual checks to make sure it was actually a business etc, researched on the web. The way it was put across was it takes time to find BMV properties, get good solicitors who act fast etc, once you sign up you get help with all this. I managed to get a telephone number off the guy who was offering the course (the number was never offered) and the gentleman i phoned seemed very genuine about the pros and cons of the course. In the end i didn't do it because of my partner, ha, negative pressure! Maybe it was a lucky escape i don't know, maybe i do have my partner to thank!

The story about the taxi driver, surely he just didn't have it in him, surely that can`t be every one of the courses at fault. I don't know maybe i am wrong! Back to the point, we do have savings however they are for our home which we will buy together, it was something we agreed a long time ago so i wont go back on that now.

Vanessa do you believe there isn't a way into property with limited start up money? Is it always best to buy? Is there anyone else who has experience of rent to rent or lease options courses? Or any more advice for an enthusiastic amateur with limited funds?

Thanks again!

Hi Daniel
If you like you can ring me on 07979690484 I will help if I can.
Kim

http://www.kimstones.co.uk

Daniel,

Slow down on the 'take a course' plans. You said you do not have any money. Many of the courses will tell you that you can get rich without money. It is mostly a lie or a very narrow slice of the truth. Even if you land a deal you will need cash for maintenance, marketing or something else.

You can buy books, you can attend local meetings or similar things that cost very little. Leave the wallet at home and focus on what you can learn for less than the price of a meal. If you want sold one on one time with 'experts' scout the room for those attending and not selling. Some will be very experienced in some aspect or they will be newbies who still have interesting knowledge. Offer to buy them lunch or breakfast. Let them eat while you take notes. You will get about 90 minutes of information and might have the start of a profitable relationship.

BTW - If you practice networking and learn from others you can scale up way past what is possible if you try to fund things from your day job. No matter how much cash you may one day have, learning to invest without cash is a skill to master. Make it a game where you push yourself to find more than one way to make a deal stack up plus mastering the emotions associated with walking away from a lead that turns out to not be a deal for you.

Specific homework: Use time rather than cash. Pound the streets looking at properties. View 100 properties in 100 days in one specific area. If necessary do it over the weekends rather than each day. Once you have viewed that many you will be more of an expert than most estate agents in the area. You will know how to organize your notes. You will be used to spotting value and spotting a dog.

The taxi driver experience is very common. What the people say from stage is rarely the full picture. They need to sell from stage so they put a good spin on the information. At the same time they could be completely correct with the info they delivered and you still might not have immediate success. If all it took was a 3 day course and desire, there would be a lot of wealthy people who a few months earlier signed up for a seminar.

A personal story to highlight I am not negative about seamers because of a jaded past experience.
I started by reading a book and later attending a seminar based on the book. All in it was about $500 and that was 30 years ago so the money was worth more.
The seminar ended on Sunday and I had the deal wrapped up Monday after noon (USA so think exchange by the afternoon). Yes, lighting does strike so it is easy to say it can happen.
What is not really clear from the short version of my story is I was able to raise the deposit from others (I had nothing into the deal so nothing down), I had a great job, a great income, I lived on a lot less and I was willing to start with a boring, full priced deal. No family members voting on what I was about to do so it was my decision. At the time I did not know I was moving quicker than most newbies. I just saw it as an engineering problem which I could solve so I solved it.

Excellent post John.

Daniel ... John has said it all really.

To be brutally honest, I do think you will struggle to get into property (via conventional methods) without the 25% deposit.

But I also believe that anything is possible if you have the drive and determination to see it through.

I think you should follow John's plan and spend time building your knowledge.

Unlike wealth, knowledge can never be taken away from you, and you may be able to develop income streams through that knowledge so that you can invest yourself.

I have to agree with John although I do think some knowledge I have gained through seminars as helped me in many ways just don't spend fortunes pt is a great place to look and learn.

Kim

http://Www.kimstones.co.uk

(19-08-2012 05:51 PM)Daniel Miller Wrote:  i feel i have achieved a mini milestone in bringing my partner around to my new mindset, not wholeheartedly but i am getting there! For anyone in the same position, i was just honest in saying, working all my life is not what i want to do and the life we want is not going to happen if we carry on as we are, just over broke!

I just wanted to say well done for sticking with it and getting your partner on board - those of us with supportive partners can consider ourselves very lucky.

Mindset is a powerful thing, and it's hard for a partner to overcome years of "you've got to have a job" programming if she's not been exposed to the same books and forums that you have.

Yes, well done Daniel for getting your partner to be a bit more positive about it all.

I like the way you say: "I have literally thought about property investment constantly for the last 6 months, first thing i think about when i wake up, last thing before i go to sleep." I think that kind of passion for property will carry you a long way; but at the same time, it may be there's good reason why your partner (like mine!) is a bit negative... it's a natural balance thing:-)

I totally understand the desire to own property - I buy properties like some women buy shoes. To some people it's just as crazy too! If I want to be more rational about it, I have to try and think of something I'm not into - like, let's say, hairdressers. I've heard several times that there's good money to be made by buying hairdressers - or commercial premises that could be used as hairdressers. But I'm not interested. It just doesn't appeal to me. I don't look into it and I don't go for it... But the rational thing, from a 'growing wealth' perspective would surely be to do whatever makes most money? In the long run I justify my actions by saying that property is a great long term way to wealth - and I do believe that; but I still think I'm guilty of doing what I most enjoy!

[I just got interrupted here and now don't have much time to add] but the point I'm trying to make is this: it's good to be passionate and do what you love, but until such time as you can afford to do whatever you like, you must temper it with the practicalities of life and basically see which way the numbers make most sense. For example, if you have to invest (tie up) £25k to buy one house at £100k and it basically returns you (in the short term) net, say £200 pcm... can you live on that? How many times can you repeat that? Enough to live on eventually? When? Those are the type of questions to ask yourself. Then ask yourself more questions, like:

What else could I do, that's still related to property investing, to maximise the amount of income I produce for myself? The answer for now, might be sticking with your current job and trying to do a little deal finding on the side, to pass on for commission to others. You might do rent to rent, but think carefully about that and what your life would actually look like when you get right into the details.

I hope this is useful but gotta go for now!

Angela