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I ran a quick test on properties in the E14 (Poplar) area of London where I have a property and used to live. There's an old 2-bed flat situated on an old council estate showing a yield 7.15% based on an avg rental between £1,715 and £2,145 per month. No chance on a single AST, and even a bit of a struggle if renting out each room separately at the higher rent.
There's a new build right next to Langdon Park DLR station that commands close to £2,000 but this includes concierge / gym. Our flat is a 2 bed, 'new build' about 5 years ago and opposite the station with a max rent of £1,650 as no extras like concierge/gym.
So not sure whether the algorithm just pulls all rentals in the area and cannot differentiate the different levels and types of properties. A little bit of extra due dil needs to be done once a property has been identified from the site.
Thank you for the feedback and more so taking the time out to take a look through the website. Constructive criticism as such will really help us tweak our system further and spot areas where we need to refine.
Are you currently suggesting a price band of £1,500-£2,000 instead of our £1,715-£2,145 for this neighbourhood?
Out of interest when did you first rent out your property @£1, 650?
I don't think the rental figures quote reflect the property being advertised. There are some properties in the E14 Langdon Park area that are advertised for £1,800 - £2,000. However, these are brand new builds (i.e. built in the last year) with concierge and gyms included, located right next to the DLR station.
If you look at the slightly older flats (e.g. 2-5 years old), these tend to go for £1,400 - £1,600 pcm depending on location, amenities and views of Canary Wharf. We recently had ours quoted at £1,650 (early Jan 2019) as it was due for renewal. Even looking on RightMove now, there's some older ones advertised for £1,560pcm. That's quite a difference each month.
The property being advertised on your site was on an old council estate (we used to rent a car space outside the block) and there's about a 2% chance of it achieving rents for anything above £1,600 as it's further from the station, shops and age/demographic wise wouldn't be able to compete with the others available on market. The only way I think you could achieve the quoted yields is if you added another room then rented it out on a room-by-room basis.
I'm guessing the site's algorithm screen scrapes the rents off RightMove or something like that for the area, bulks them together then does a min/max valuation, but it doesn't seem to differentiate between the quality on offer.
As I said, it's a good starting point to get a rough idea from one site, but more due dil would be needed rather than a straight click-and-purchase.
Hope that helps.
``Constructive criticism as such will really help us tweak our system further and spot areas where we need to refine.``
I`ve done a couple of other checks and found another big discrepancy
Its frankly quite shocking how far out the figures are
3 bed semi in very posh part of town - Price 365K . Max rent you say 1,050
3 ( really a converted 2 bed ) terraced in an un posh part of town 170K. Max rent you say 1,100
So the prices are about right yes .
They are 195K apart which reflects the respective areas they are in
So why on earth you say the 170K one can get more rental than the 365K one is beyond me?
I feel your system doesnt just need tweaking - its needs a complete overhaul
Would you consider stopping taking sign up fees until rectified ?
Jonathan Clarke. http://www.buytoletmk.com
I think this is vital, they shouldn't be charging people for something that clearly doesn't work properly.
Sorry forgot to mention the 365K one sold way back on 14/09/18 for 360K
So a massive 4 mths out of date yet still on your website inviting viewers to call the agent
Come on guys get your act together . Stop charging people for out of date information
Wheres your oversight and scrutiny on all of this ?
Yeah I really want this website to work - but it's tiring going through listings - calling them up and finding they are already sold. Please let me know when this problem has been sorted out
Ouch i did another one
One i have viewed myself and offered on so i know the figs
The toppy yield took no account of the 15K refurb required
The low rent given this time was in the opposite direction as to what one could get -
It was way to low though at 575 pcm for a good size one bed with garden . One beds start at 650
I get 575 for just the small standard studios
Also this was a guide price and offers were going in 10K over what was shown
So the yield would come right down anyway with the price you pay and the refurb
Its was misleading and ultimately counter productive .
I`ve long believed you cant invent an algorithm to really assist this type of research
The variables are just too great - Other stuff yes - but not houses
Sorry - but you asked for feedback ...
Thank you for your last several comments which we have not had a chance to respond until now.
We appreciate you taking the time out to review the website and give us positive criticism. It seems as if you have really tried to test the system and find holes with the data. As all your examples are on extremes of our rental figures or extreme variations in property type with the same number of bedrooms. We also appreciate that now you are providing links so that we can look into data discrepancies further.
The picture you try and paint of us is quite negative however all your comments actually demonstrate that our rental band is 100% accurate.
“You show a rent range of 880 - 1100 pcm
The yield stated is set against the 1100 figure
1100 is simply not achievable though . Even 880 would be really pushing it .”-
But you say 880 is achievable.
“The low rent given this time was in the opposite direction as to what one could get -
It was way to low though at 575 pcm for a good size one bed with garden. One beds start at 650
I get 575 for just the small standard studios”
Again, here the rental band falls into our correct price bracket. Some of our first buy to let investors really like having the low-end figure there as they use this as a worst-case figure.
We are glad to see that you agree the rental bands again are correct.
You use 2 different 3 bedroom properties which could not be further apart. A 2/3 bedroom council property and 3 bedroom semi-detached with a garage and drive. In this example, we actually point out to the user that it is council and further due diligence is required. Council properties do trip up area rental figures as they are the low end of extremes. In regards for the property which was listed for sale @£360,000. There would be less than a one percent chance of a buy to let investor purchasing a property like this as an investment. But you are concerned about a £50 difference.
A £50 difference would change the yield from 3.41- 3.62%.
If someone did achieve more rent it would be a bonus.
I think you do not understand the objective of One&Only Pro or we have failed to explain it to you.
How to use One&Only Pro
1. Yield can never be accurate as property is not homogenous however we have made it as accurate as it can be, it just gives a faster way of filtering and presenting potential properties.
2. After this you carry out further due diligence and can speak to local experts.
3. Following this you should get a RICS report carried out who will give rental figures.
I trust your comments above (in bold) are accurate. These would be very valuable next to those particular listings. I doubt our system will have local knowledge like you do however I am sure its quicker at sorting out the wheat from the chaff and performs calculations faster.
We appreciate the product is not for you. Not everyone has your knowledge. This provides an alternative for someone who does not want to go to an expensive property course.
And a £15 monthly fee will not get you the same service as a deal sourcer charging £7,000 but it’s an alternative offering.
We would much rather have mislead someone to achieve £50 less or more rent per calender month than them losing thousands of pounds to get rich quick seminars or dubious deal sourcers as has been the case many times. As when they come to relet the property they will probably realise the additional £50 pcm.
We are actually very surprised that the system is so accurate in Milton Keynes as you have really had a go to try and find discrepancies and used extreme examples. We appreciate this it has instilled a lot of confidence in us and we want people to try and test the system in this way as we want to improve it.
When informing us of discrepancies please provide links.
Thanks for your comprehensive reply
I tested it yes but didnt go to town . No need . Of the first 6 I clicked on 5 had errors
I`m sure there are lots of accurate ones on there but the broader the rental band the less value it has
It wasnt the £50 I was quibbling about as such .
It was just that that figure was so far out for one of them but not for the other . A comparison
You say the rental band is 100% accurate!! . You must run a different logic system to me lol
1100 max is simply not accurate for the 3 bed in Bounds Croft .
You say 575 is the worst case figure for the other one - but its not - 650 is the worst case figure .
So 575 is not accurate
That`s like me saying for a circa 500 pcm property the rental band is between £1 and £1000
So yes 100% right even though what I am telling you has zero value -
Come on buddy dont pull the wool
If council properties trip up your figures then they should be weeded out somehow so not too mislead
Are you able to do this somehow perhaps ? After all, many towns have 1000`s and 1000`s of council properties
So its going to trip the figures all over the shop and distort routinely surely . That`s no good for anyone
The investor might as well just go on rightmove . Your site should add value not take it away
But with your site the first call is to check its still on the market and not sold 4 mths ago
Shouldnt have to do that really as the customer - especially if you are paying for the service
Cant you migrate the `SSTC `or `under offer` flag ups from the main portals
Then after say a month remove them completely
If the 360K property is on there has a less than 1% of being bought by a BTL investor then why is it on there ?
Its showing the yield the ROCI with an investment analysis . What for if its not a property for your target audience ?
And I dont understand why its still on there long after i told you about 2 days ago
If that was my site . I would take it down after i read my post and gone woops sorry my mistake
But its still up there - Why ,. And loads of others there . You talk about fining agents who dont tell you
That sounds a bit harsh and wont win you more agents
You say your site sorts out the `wheat from the chaff` . Thats the problem - I dont think it does tbh
It piles it all in together
I wish it did sort it all out then it would be of more value to me or other investors I suggest .
I agree £15 pcm in itself is not a large sum . But its a numbers game
500 investors sign up though that`s 90K pa . Not insignificant
I agree 7000 is a lot to pay a sourcer . Far too much in my view unless operating at 1 mil level properties perhaps
But that distraction doesnt automatically validate your site .
Best concentrate on your product please and get that right
I will provide more links if you really want - but I dont want to be overly critical as ive given you a hard time
So I will try and find good ones as well for balance
I`m interested in how you select the ones you do as some really good ones are not on there
It seems you only have a contract with a few agencies so select properties from them alone
Like a tied broker I guess . Limiting though to an investor who naturally wants whole of market
I saw another one on there for xxxx. I`m buying one very similar for xxxx which is considerably cheaper
The one you show is not good value in my view but my one is not on there
I wont send the link yet as its not completed and i dont want to be gazumped
You say you appreciate the product is not for me as not everyone has my knowledge
Sounds like you are saying they wont be able to spot the flaws so readily as me
Thats not fair surely . You should help us both equally not rely on the naivety of a newbie
But what i pointed out is not particularly specialist knowledge anyway
I just tap into rightmove and see that a property is under offer or sold 4 mths ago. Anyone can do that
I can tap into rentals on rightmove and see that your rental figs are not achievable
I`m speaking up for the people who have got limited knowledge so are thinking of maybe coming to you
They come to me and ask my advice . I signpost them all the time
I want to say have a look at your site its a great investment tool @ £15pcm
Unfortunately as it stands i feel i cant
If you spend some time / money sorting out the wheat from the chaff then maybe I hopefully can