X

Sign Up

or

By signing up I agree to Property Tribes Terms and Conditions


Already a PT member? Log In

Sign Up

Sign Up With Facebook, Twitter, or Google

or


By signing up, I agree to Property Tribes Terms and Conditions


Already a PT member? Log In

Log In

or


Don't have an account? Sign Up

Forgot Password

To reset your password just enter the email address you registered with and we'll send you a link to access a new password.


Already a PT member? Log In

Don't have an account? Sign Up

  • Buy-to-Let

    Never ignore political risk caution MoneyWeek

    I always think in general a BTL investment has to work much harder than a pension to  make the same money

    In the past BTL has done better But I am not sure it will be the same investment in the next 20 years

    Its only leverage that makes BTL a good investment and it trumps Pensions (but at higher risk)

    But If someone has a Million in a Pension /ISA  and a Million in a Property My guess after tax the Pension and ISA will perform better over the next 20 years pound for pound

    Especially if we have low capital growth I like BTL but I also Like Pensions and ISA in 2019


    0
    0

    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    All comments are for casual information purposes only. If you wish to rely on any advice I have given please ensure you obtain independent specialist advice from a third party. No liability is accepted for comments made.


    I understand and I agree that pensions have some lovely perks but my issue with pensions are the following:

    1. Private pensions are not 100% safe, even pension pots can go bust and the FSCS will only cover you up to £85k I believe?
    2. They rely on permanent growth both in the economy and from younger people putting in (why I consider it a pyramid scheme) - permanent growth is a concept that I believe is starting to be challenged and I have no idea what the world will look like in 30-40 years when I hit pension age, this makes me nervous
    3. My biggest issue - they can just raise the age bracket, even on private pensions - currently 55, likely raising to 57 by 2028 - raising to what by the time I am 60? I severely dislike the lack of control I have
    4. State pension age is going to be 67 by 2028, again what will it be when I retire? I would bet it won't exist at all and will have been scrapped

    How much tax you pay on investments such as BTL is somewhat subject to circumstances. We can offset all of the corporation tax on our investments currently and lets not forget it's reducing to 17% from 20% shortly which will help even more. Then if me and my wife as joint shareholders and directors want to take salaries out (working for ourselves) as we eventually plan to, you can essentially draw out £100k per year between the two of us paying only around £5k of that in tax. That aside though we have complete control over those assets but most importantly I am not having my retirement dictated to me by forces entirely out of my control.

    I think pensions are fantastic if you're 50+ right now. What concerns me is what pensions will look like when I get close to retirement and it could be entirely different to what I've signed up to.

    0
    0

    This is an interesting perspective and I can understand your thoughts in terms of control.

    SIPPs are different because the person can choose their investment as opposed to being locked into an investment of another person's choosing.

    It sounds like we're of similar age and my greatest concern for property is that the UK is aging fast and the population will fall unless we allow immigration, a phenomenon that many want to halt. Those factors combined will mean a fall in the productive age range and that will impact housing as much as anything. With SIPPs a person could reallocate funds globally based on a number of factors.

    0
    0

    Yeah it's an interesting topic, I certainly won't tell anyone investing in a pension is a mistake as it most likely won't be and probably everything will work out fine but whereas I am sure 50 years ago pensions were an absolute winner and as sure as death and taxes, I now think the landscape could look vastly different in 30-40 years. 

    SIPPs are obviously going to be the most reliable of all the pensions and are very well protected, and of course you can choose your investment but that still won't make it 100% water tight (but then again property isn't either) and again you still won't have full control over when and how you will access that fund. If you try to take more than 25% of the pot you will be taxed and you're still drip fed earnings as opposed to having complete control over 100% of your assets immediately. You raise an interesting perspective on ageing populations and fall in immigration but I don't think we'll get to a point where immigration is stopped or significantly slowed, the government knows our economy needs them and I think now a hard Brexit just isn't going to happen. We will likely just end up in a customs union with the EU anyway and things will continue much as they have.

    I guess my personal thoughts are that I am absolutely certain property is not going to be a bad investment for the next decade at least (demand in rents is increasing, houses still are not being built anywhere near fast enough and we have an increasing population) and I can adapt, change, sell, move money around as needed if I see the tides turning. Pensions are me making a commitment right now and hoping the goal posts aren't moved 30-40 years from now. I just fundamentally don't like that. If I wasn't into property I'd probably still be all in on pensions because what the hell else can you do but I think property is a safe, fully controllable and acceptable way to plan for a pension right now. Furthermore I don't want to wait to be 57 until I can stop working, I want to stop much sooner Smile


    0
    0

    If you can make a guaranteed 10% pa plus a near certain capital growth,then good luck to you.

    there is no chance of either around my area.

    2
    0

    I think 10% is a huge ask

    I work on 1,5% per year

    and I work on 8% yield

    anything more is a bonus

    0
    0

    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    All comments are for casual information purposes only. If you wish to rely on any advice I have given please ensure you obtain independent specialist advice from a third party. No liability is accepted for comments made.

    I can get 10% ROI in an area I think will grow - like Liverpool, Nottingham, Manchester etc. It isn't guaranteed but I am fairly sure they will go up considerably over the next decade.

    0
    1

    So the moral of the story - don't have all your eggs in one basket - nothing particularly ground-breaking about that notion.

    No one can ever predict anything in any form of investment.  We just have to mitigate risk wherever we can and, if appropriate/possible, insure against it.  That was why Property Tribes ran "Business Risk Mitigation Week" earlier this year:




    Monday - the launch of week and looking at how landlords can insure against risk - with Alan Boswell Group.

    Tuesday - the importance of inventories with the Association of Independent Inventory Clerks and Inventory Base.​

    Wednesday - mitigating risk through the use of a reputable lettings agent with David Cox, CEO of ARLA.

    Thursday Mitigating business risk via due diligence

    Friday - Mitigating business risk by using verification

    2
    0

    But its Govt risk thats the problem

    every thing else is Business risk I agree We can all become better it business but we dont have any control of what Govt brings us

    and thats why we should be mindful and think a head of what could come

    Plan for stricter tenancy more tax changes and Rent Control

    It could happen  and most likly will

    who would have ever dreamed you could not charge a Tenant fees five years ago


    2
    0

    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    All comments are for casual information purposes only. If you wish to rely on any advice I have given please ensure you obtain independent specialist advice from a third party. No liability is accepted for comments made.


    The death of buy-to-let property is a useful cautionary tale for all investors

    Absolute rubbish! There are plenty of opportunities for investors, borrowers are finding it tougher.

    Life has become very tough for amateur landlords in recent years.

    More rubbish! Amateur landlords don't have the preconceived ideas of what used to work and are more inclined to look at what will work.

    0
    0