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  • Property Training/Mentoring

    Samuel Leeds - training review

    (*Moderator note:  This contribution was split off from the original long-running Samuel Leeds property entrepreneur thread as it focusses solely on the training*)

    (Somewhat) UNBIASED REVIEW GATHERED FOR OVER 15-MONTH PERIOD

    VERIFIED INSIGHTS AND 1st HAND EXPERIENCE ONLY. 

    Firstly, please accept my apologies for spectating rather than contributing on PT thus far.

    This is an extremely valuable forum, which inevitably has played a vital part in our property education.

    My (poor) excuse for not sharing until today is simply the fact that I focus my energy on growing tangible value in my daily life and have not had a minute to tackle this topic, until today (cancelled flight meant I am sat at an airport for a while needing a distraction).

    About Me

    Age Group: ‘Millennial’

    Experience and Education: Uni Grad,  commodity trading desk (4 years), Asset Mgmt (2 years)

    Weekends/Spare time: Travel and Entrepreneurship [from start-ups (2 years) to BTL property investing (1 year)].

    Involvement with the aforementioned Property Entrepreneur

    Training: 2-day Crash Course (2017), 3-day DFE (2018).

    15-months worth of feedback from 9 Academy members (current and previous members).

    Crash Course - 5/10

    Points deducted for: Pushy Up-sale to clearly broke people who will do anything to improve their financial situation.

    Even if it means taking “Pay day loans” or borrowing from friends on the day, because the trainees lack capacity to do their due diligence prior to parting with money, and understanding it’s not as rosy as it’s presented - imagine “a millionaire volunteers his time to share his knowledge to the masses and live demonstrates how to secure 30% BMV, No money down, HMO generating 4-figure a month by spending 360 seconds on RightMove; what could go wrong?

    It’s like taking an opportunity of the market during the September 11 (2001) attacks, whilst sitting in one of WTC towers; madness. Side tracking: very sad story, colleagues uncle died in WTC (R.I.P).

    Anyway, you may say this is rich coming from a finance professional but trust me it was verging on unethical. Particularly, seeing these people ‘Taking Action’ was the type of SPIN you’d see from Jordan Belford in the early 90s.

    The trainer is enthusiastic and comes across motivational for the majority of those in the audience. This is a good session for those who need a hand-holding through their lives and those who have nothing to lose.  After all, it is free, right? I genuinely enjoyed the motivational aspects of the session though.

    I benefited from a non-boring introduction to the property market  and decent networking. Having said that, the entire two days could have been easily covered in half day (though clearly limiting the marketing opportunity for the presenter).

    The information and exercises are basic AF and you will quickly recognise a lack of substance to what’s being discussed.

    Fairly good tactic of making audience feel like they are a waste of space in order to ensure they take ACTION and part with money as those who stand up and run to pay up for the training at the back - some of those in the audience seemed to have been simply placed to make it more visually appealing to jump on this 70% off deal.

    Pulling on audience’s heartstrings regarding charity works well - impactful as more individuals are drawn to the back given the genuine and warm approach of this successful property expert. One only hopes there is truth to the story otherwise the Christian presenter is comparable to your Lehman Brothers; full of ****, sold in a nice gift wrapper.

    Leave your Debit/Credit Cards at home and save yourself £2.5k towards something more meaningful than DFE.

    I was (un)fortunate enough to tag along for further training with an acquaintance who has more money than he can spend (clearly). This cost me my time, so I am at a ridiculous loss given I cannot make it back. If you’re broke and you spent money you do not have on this training then genuinely try your best to make it back through selling (zlipping) those deals (£250-£750 paid per deal I think). “Arbeit macht frei” they said...

    DFE - 2/10

    Point added for the venue and networking.

    All points subtracted for every other aspect of this experience.

    Training left me dumbfounded:

    1. Trainer breaks down his sales funnel to DFE attendees i.e. PIN meets or (30-min read) book he sells/gives on Amazon to entice audience for a free Crash Course. All the above “marketing” expenditure is covered by the revenue from DFE training sales. Final stage for the funnel is the Academy (info below). Best magic tricks guaranteed.
    2. Flimsy workbook is handed out, again with primary school “fill the gap” pages. Couldn’t make this up...
    3. Cash Course is recycled in Day 1.
    4. Beneath the smiles there is a fairly sleazy salesman whose sole aim is to separate you from the cash: more Academy Upsale, daily. I love the enthusiasm and perseverance though, the real money is on horizon so it’s well worth it for the trainers; Academy “interviews” commence as of Day 2.
    5. Day 2 - HMO visits; properties are not even owned by the trainer despite ‘owning a number of properties in the area’; one way to kill your credibility seppuku style.
    6. Academy is an exclusive, selected group of ACTION TAKERS who must fit a particular profile - you can apply and be interviewed to have a chance being accepted for 1:1 with the trainer and his team. You will smash your goals in 1/3 of the time. In another words, give me £10k+VAT and you’re in. More on this below...
    7. Raising finance Day 3: ended up excusing myself to cry from laughter in another room. The trainer tasked people with finding out the maximum they could secure through asset liquidation, JVs, loans, family and alike. Absolute madness and total nonsense...the room hypothetically raised in excess of £10M through people’s imaginative cash rich friends on the other end of the line. One person who I spoke with, during a comfort break, was looking to learn about LOAs due to lack of cash...next thing you hear, same person when asked to share outcome of their exercise on raising finance, shouts back to Mr S “I could raise £790k today by taking action”.

    Academy - 4/10 (Based on direct feedback from 4 existing academy member and 5 of those who quit)

    Common theme includes:

    £10k+VAT for a few sessions with other trainers specialising in various strategies as well as a WhatsApp Group. Most expressed disappointment by the lack of value - 

    The aforementioned mentor sends the Academy members to other trainers (in the process he gets kick backs for “referrals&rdquoWink. Apparently, some sessions are definitely worth it but some only scratch the surface (you know the name of the game by now...funnelling).

    The Academy has tripled to about 100 members, so support’s apparently diluted and some F2F moved to Skype meetings.

    Despite being sold on to a mentorship programme, your chance for a decent 1:1 sessions is like turning up at Gaucho expecting a decent vegan meal.

    The latest Better Sourced Ltd. is 50:50 between the two gents. Clearly, A.C. provides a positive spin on the BLRH venture, which has seen a huge number of complaints regarding the quality of deals. The common legal issue with both though is that full payment for a “deal sourcing” is taken upfront despite no service is being provided prior to transfer for full amount.

    As a final comment from those with Academy experience: “Indeed, a number of lawsuits is being prepared as we speak”.

    Good luck to the organisers of this training! I think they have taken Bob Dylan’s

    “We're going all the way 'til the wheels fall off and burn” quite literally.

    Peace out, my flight is ready!

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    Great post JaneDoe and echoes unbiased reviews of others recently posted here and on TrustPilot.

    As I've said before it seems over the last 12 months SL and his Crash Courses have really gained momentum with 1000 people attending the first Crash Course in January and 100 attending his DFE with these increasing numbers and those that go onto join his Academy, he'll soon add a further level above as with 100 plus now it will soon no longer have the initial appeal / prestige of joining it once had, Platinum Partners or something along those lines for £20k + VAT will be added, I'm sure.

    Will be interesting to see what drops out later in the year and with BLRH being replaced by Better Sourced Ltd and a large number of others they have motivated to set up their own sourcing companies something may give.

    All quiet on the Castle Project, I'm waiting to see some form of crowd funding campaign with bated breath.

    I think we may see his bubble bursting in 2020......either that or his popularity is going to go further to the next level again, but at some point it will catch up with him......

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    Thank you ever so much LandlordAgent.

    I hope other readers find it useful, particularly those who are novices in this sector.

    In response to your comments:

    I believe that if the company in question does not evolve as the demand for their services grows, it will eventually run into serious legal issues brought in by their own “customers”. 

    All you need is one Corporate Tax Lawyer or clued up HMRC officer who goes for training,  gets burnt by the said company and decides to escalate and/or prosecute. Ruthless, and savvy individuals might even orchestrate a jail time for the directors - I assume the mentor was smart enough to release themselves from that responsibility (read: “risk” ) passing it on to others (even family I hear!)

    In my world, taking calculated risk is a must. This company lives by the same ethos, however with lack of “mathematical” foundation to base their decisions upon. Not to mention a complete disregard for ethics and regulations.

    One of the  Crash Course trainees revealed to me  how they were refused a refund for the Academy despite making such request within days of signing up.

    Sadly, due diligence was done after they’ve parted with money. In any case, the reason for refusal: part of the mentorship was provided. The reality,  initial chat with the “mentor” in question was conducted in a group meeting with the “lucky ones” who were “selected” during the “intensive” Crash Course.

    Apparently, the actual discussion was a general 20-minute wind down chat right after the Crash Course, simply outlining how amazing their lives will transform the minute they begin later in the year. After a short battle, the refund was issued (less the fee for imaginary administration of taking down your details and £12k payment).

    Nevertheless, a lawsuit had to be mentioned for the company to back down and issue the refund, of course with no apologies but just the simple “he/she is not an Action Taker”.

    One example from a DFE session was that a surveyor was actually in attendance as a trainee and completely disintegrated the representative of PowerWhoosh (another branch to this business just with a ridiculous name this time); when it came down to analysing whether a property is structurally sound and essentially a good buy.

    The representative had a bad day once a debate on the usefulness of RICS surveys kicked in as he tried to suggest that one is simply not required as PowerWhoosh does an equally “good job” without the price tag, “bringing you a higher ROI on your investment”. If the gentleman was not there on the day, I think 80% of attendees would simply run with that idea i.e. skipping the RICS survey.

    The attendees (based on my observation) tend to divide to three categories:

    1. This is a SCAM - give me my money back and I will tell the World about it

    2. This is really POOR VALUE - I am too polite or shy to kick up a fuss and try to get my money back

    3. I need to TAKE ACTION and make it work, THERE IS SIMPLY NO EXCUSE

    I applaud no.1s, don’t pity no.2s and simply feel somewhat sorry for no.3s as many of them are about to waste more money and time. Those who succeed owe it themselves and not a training like the one provided by The Man himself.

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    They must have had some sort of falling out with Chris, MD, Power Whoosh Project Management & Surveying Services Ltd

    Mr Christopher Timothy Harrington resigned as a Director after just over 3 months from start up 15 Jan 2018 — 23 Apr 2018 (3 months, 8 days)

    https://www.duedil.com/director/922960811...harrington Samuel's wife remain sole Director of that and their furnishings business Power Whoosh Furnishing & Dressing Services Ltd https://www.duedil.com/director/922401118...ectorships

    Social Media Twitter no communication since 14th Aug 2018 https://twitter.com/power_whoosh?lang=en Facebook page taken down.

    Website Down https://powerwhoosh.co.uk/cgi-sys/defaultwebpage.cgi

    However, although Chris had resigned in April, they tweeted the following below in June 2018

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    I have seen sight of correspondence from Chris Harrington, which states his position as "Office Manager".

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    Just glanced on Linkedin showing Office Manager for Samuel Leeds Ltd as you mentioned, still showing him as Managing Director of Power Whoosh Ltd.

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-harrington-138a1992

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    Thank you again Jane for sharing your first hand experience.

    It seems to me that the business is impossible to scale, as Samuel cannot be replicated and it is all based on him as the front person.  So he is spreading himself thinner and thinner as more and more people join. Therefore his ability to fulfil his obligations (if he was ever capable) are diminishing with every new mentee who joins the programme.

    I don't believe he has enough hours in the day to fulfil his obligations to them.  So he will find people to delegate to - possibly people from his own courses - and so the mentee becomes the mentor and then things might really start to decline, as we have seen in other networks with the likes of Ben Rogers and Paul Smith who went from trainee to trainer in the blink of an eye.

    How Samuel is giving people value for money is a head scratcher.  He must be working such long hours fitting it all in and doing his damage control to shut down the unhappy ones.

    ​I fear the writing is on the wall with regards to Samuel Leeds.

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    This change to Trustpilot may (or may not) impact his reviews where he floods them after a crash course.

    Trustpilot tackles business review cheats  - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47132072

    Plus honest posts like yours (and the other thread) will help future investors make an informed decision as to whether his courses and mentor programmes are worth it.


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    Property Investors with Samuel Leeds Reviews  467  Excellent 

    Excellent       86%
    Great             8%
    Average        1%
    Poor              1%
    Bad               4%

    If you look at the reviews, you'll see the dates marry with his Crash Courses and with 200 + once being left within an hour or so. Many of these will have been boosted by people asked to leave reviews on the understanding he was going to pick one person who left a review to attend his 3 Day DFE paid course for Free.

    https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.prop...tors.co.uk

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    There are disturbing similarities to SfL and the previous 'gurus' that have gone before him.

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    Funny to see some reviews referring to the PT forum thread.

    They should do a Homes under the Hammer style where they come back 12 months later to check in on the progress and get attendees to review again...

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