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  • Problem Tenants

    Tenants not leaving

    No you will  be liable for all costs.

    If we LL could insure against fees we would all have that sort of insurance  policy!!!!

    Clearly you have been more sensible with your RGI on your property.

    But you are inheriting a situation would you would not have managed this way.

    Irrespective  of these current tenants  paying rent they have effectively trashed the property.

    No amount of rent will pay for the damages they have caused.

    It is HB tenants that behave like this that cause LL to decline such tenants.

    As you suggest you wish to recover the property and restore it to then achieve a far better market rent.

    Utilising the RGI strategy is the way to go for future tenants.

    Because you are inheriting a situation you do not know what has been done

    I suspect that compliance with S21 regulations won't be possible.

    In your situation I would use LL Action.

    They have an excellent track record

    I have successfully evicted 5 tenants for rent arrears and damage and apparently  I did very well in doing so within certain timescales.

    But I can tell you I was bored out of my brain doing it all.

    The next time I need to evict I will be using LL Action.

    Life is too short to go through another eviction process again.

    The problem you have is that the tenants are paying the current rent.

    There are so many problems here that you need to let LL Action or others to carry out this eviction

    You will lose about 10 months of rent as it is highly unlikely  the tenants will carry on paying rent once they know they are to be evicted

    Though clever HB tenants will realise that paying the rent until eviction day will mean they have not made themselves intentionally homeless.

    One way you could force them into rent arrears is to issue a S13 rent increase notice.

    This they will fail to pay.

    So you then have them as if they don't pay then they will be making themselves intentionally homeless

    So S13 first  then S21 or S8 when they fail to pay the revised S13 rent.

    But basically you just want them gone due to their behaviour.

    Sometimes just receiving the rent is not sufficient  especially  if the tenants are causing degradation  of the property.

    It is pointless letting to these tenants if all the rent is needed to repair the property from their deviant lifestyle.

    You need them gone.

    I hope you have about 10 months of mortgage payments and about another £3000 to restore the property.

    This is a very unfortunate  position for you to have been placed in.

    But as you indicate you intend to address  the matter.

    So for you it will be sort term pain for long term gain.

    Register these tenants with LRS which might then prevent them sourcing a private tenancy with a LL who may be a member of LRS

    Ideally every LL should register good and bad tenants with LRS so as to prevent deviant tenants being able to obtain another tenancy.

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    Thanks for the reply. They have been served an S21 and should of left last Friday. they have had plenty of notice (not sure of the exact time scale they have had) but they have continued to pay rent over this timescale.

    The money to restore the property has been there for over 6 months as we spoke to the estate agents informing them of our plans and the tenants asked if they could stay until the end of their tenancy which we agreed upon. However, now they wish not to leave until they have another property to move into.

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    You will have to hope that everything was correctly done for your S21 to be valid.

    I'm sure you know what they are.

    But you will need proof which I strongly doubt you have which is why you may have to use the very unreliable S8 process but not for rent arrears if they continue to pay rent.

    You will have to use the other S8 grounds which do not concern rent arrears as they seem to be ensuring there won't be any.

    You may well find and I know it will stick in the craw that you will need to issue a new AST for 6 months ensuring you FULLY comply with ALL the new tenancy requirements.

    After all how much more damage can they do in 6 months that they haven't done already..I suspect your S21 will fail and so would S8 if there are no rent arrears.

    So perhaps go backwards to GUARANTEE that you can go forward.

    A new AST would enable you to go forward.

    Though I dread to think how you will itemise the inventory.

    I have never had to put anything down about smell

    But apparently you will have to due to the urine smell!!!!

    Because you have inherited this situation you cannot rely on everything being correct.

    For example a court will want to see evidence that an EPC and gas certificate was provided to the tenants before the AST was signed.

    You will need deposit proofs etc.

    Just firing off a S21 is no guarantee that the tenants will comply.

    I hope for your sake that they do.

    Somehow I doubt it.

    Perhaps a small bribe might be a cost effective method to have the tenants sign a surrender letter and to return the keys.

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    Sorry to hear this, this is horrible.  I had to give a section 21 to all my tenants (4 in property, one for smoking drugs, one as complaining of them stealing etc). They did not stay on, one did stop paying rent, it was all very stressful.  Once this is all over, I would look into getting a good lettings agents.  I let through an agent and they do 6 monthly inspections.  It should be 6 monthly for first year and then yearly thereafter.  It is very important that this is done, if not some tenants decide no-one is interested and they can do what they like, when they like.  I am also a member of the NLA  so I have 24 hour line for assistance if needed as well.  The agent needs to be responsible.  Also if its let, does the agent have confirmation of all the paperwork that was done and handed to the tenant?  They should have a record of all this, ie gas cert, EPC, deposit, signed prescribed inf. I would ask for proof of these.  It might be worth paying the membership fee and getting help from the NLA or RLA as your brother's agent sounds incompetent.  Is their a contract that was signed, I am assuming it was with your brother? There should be terms of managing a property written and signed.

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    Thanks for all the feedback.


    I have spoken to the estate agents and they have stated,

    The tenants are on a rolling contract as there tenancy agreement came to an end sometime ago. They also receive benefits which they pay for the rent and the council don't currently pay a share towards the rent.


    The estate agents also told me a member of the homeless prevention team from the council wanted to speak to so I have just had a conversation with them.


    "The council currently have a shortage of homes so anyone being served a S21 is told they should not leave their house as the council need to find suitable properties. If you want them out of the property then you would need to evict them (which is what they were recommending and I thought it was strange!)


    they also said I could go down the route of increasing rent to evict the tennants which I didn't fully understand but they said it was best to speak to your estate agent about this.

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    Ah! I see.

    What you need to do is ISSUE a S13 for a rent increase you know they won't pay.

    Then issue a S8 fir rent arrearsor wait 2 months to issue a S21

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    Hi Paul,


    Thanks for the reply. If I went down this route of a rent increase would this mean I would then not have to go through court to evict the tenants?


    The lady at the council is not very clear and keeps saying,


    "Our duty is to help to prevent from homelessness and the duty ends only after a secure accommodation will be found.

     As soon as a tenant receives  s.21 he is counted as threatening with homelessness within 56 days and then our duty to help starts.

    I already have a copy of s.21 which actually ended on 20th April 2018, and that is the reason why Council is helping to your tenants. "


    So I asked does this mean we do not need to go to court to evict the tenants as the council will ensure the tenants have moved out with 56 days but the lady at the council simply replies you are not understanding what I am saying, you should speak to a solicitor. ...therefore I am thinking I still need to go through the courts to get them out the house.

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    Yep same old crap from councils  despite the HRA.

    So submit  your PO application  the 1st day after the S21 expires.

    I'm not sure it will succeed cos all the S21 conditions  may not have been complied with.

    It isn't your fault as you are inherited another LL situation  which you haven't been controlling.

    I bet your PO application  will be thrown out due to S21 issues.

    If you know there are S21 issues then don't bother wasting your time and money.

    In your position  I would issue a new AST and then you can get rid of the tenants after a long eviction process which you know will work because you will have been controlling  everything.

    You could increase the rent on a new AST and when the tenants are 1 month and 1 day in rent arrears issue a S8

    15 days later apply for a PO for 2 months rent arrears

    Hopefully tenants don't reduce rent arrears to 1 month or you can't evict.

    By the sounds of it these tenants are pretty thick so they might be stupid enough not to keep rent arrears to 1 month.

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