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  • Tax

    Accountants confident to stand by Grey areas.

    I'm noticing the advice we are sharing with each other appears to be gaining in riskier propositions to survive.

    If you have your own accountant, does it then ultimately come down to how they, individually or as a firm are confident in their own abilities to interpret accounting policy that is not black and white?

    If so, where do you find these experienced and self assured professionals?

    Feel like I'm guiding mine and teaching him, regarding s.24 and holiday lets, rather than the other way. For example he said, 'yes, you can offset losses on a FHL against BTL losses in each year'. I explained their was an amendment to the rules in 2011. He then replies, ' I will have to look at that'.

    I explained It can be considered grey though and that other accountants have debated this ( can find this online) I asked I'd he was willing to stand up for the Grey part. He was vague.

    Is it time for a new accountant? He told me to stay with him and not go with his more experienced colleague, who invited me to go that way. He said he wants to learn.... Confused as only used 2 accountants in recent years


    Yes indeed - all accountants are not the same

    Once you suspect you know  more than them about your specific area of interest  its time to look elsewhere maybe 

    Or if you really like them  tell them to work on the problem for free as both of you will learn then  and gain knowledge 

    Many are like GP`s and do a great job but are jack of all trades and master of none  

    So run of the mill stuff thats ok to use them 

    But if you have a complex disease like S24 its natural to be referred by a GP to a specialist 

    Accountants wont like you  to leave though as they don`t want to lose your business .

    Thats simple greed . Thats more in their interest and not yours sometimes . I dont blame them . Its human nature 

    GP`s on the NHS though are only happy to refer you to a a consultant specialist as it lightens there workload

    Do DD on your accountant as much as you do on a property

    Do you need a GP accountant or a specialist consultant one

    But then consultants can also disagree -  arrrrrgh 

    That`s when its get really tricky and you just have to go with your gut


    Jonathan Clarke. http://www.buytoletmk.com

    Thanks Jonathon, that's helpful. Will ponder the above, there have been other issues too but maybe better the devil you know? This one is on our side, whereas had one before who was a jobsworth.


    Hi All,

    One of the best discussions for a while; albeit difficult to answer fully without breaching Property Tribes guidelines, giving away too much of our IP, or providing answers out of context without first knowing an individual’s circumstances.  The hardest part I guess though, is how does the layman know whose solution passes muster.

    Sadly we do not have a unified tax system nor a clean sheet of paper from where to start again; and, as with all fast moving and often politically based systems, understanding,  practice, and acceptance, evolve through a combination of employing existing proven strategies, mixed partnerships say, through to at the other of the spectrum those that rely upon untested opinion or aggressive implementation.  And, from time to time, very wealthy individuals like the Duke of Westminster successfully put HMRC to the test, resulting in a new understanding, practice, and acceptance.

    Getting anything like objective opinion from commercial and property tax professionals is likewise fraught with difficulty for the layman.  There are only a handful of firms out there who have both the raw knowledge and the benefit of sufficient successful and contextual experience, able to pass meaningful comment, but they are in effect competitors making it even tougher for you to decide.

    S24 is a timebomb whose widespread unpleasant and costly effects are already being felt.  Open access forums will only ever give you so much information, and eventually you’ll have to make a decision or risk going under simply by dint of inaction or analysis paralysis.

    The only thing you can do is to ask the protagonists to advise you after first providing them with identical information, checking to see what their track record with HMRC is, perhaps speaking with some of their longer term clients at the right moment, and, most importantly of all, getting sight of their professional indemnity cover which, by the way, should always be per case/matter, and not in aggregate. You shouldn’t be asked to sign any form of non-disclosure agreement, but you should be prepared to pay for the advisers’ time.


    Tony Gimple

    Founding Director

    Less Tax For Landlords

    0203 735 2940

    S24 is a specialist subject even accountants today do not fully understand it and its effect

    one common mistake is YOUR ONLY A BASIC RATE TAX PAYER SO DONT WORRY S24 Doesn't effect you

    how wrong they are on this point especially if a Landlord works and has other income away from BTL

    We as Landlords have a duty to ourselves to stay up to date and research all changes

    I have an Accountant who looks after myself assessment and I do all the donkey work and present my accounts normally  over a 125 pages of detailed information

    I give him P60 ect

    all he has to do is check my figs and tell me what my Tax is and how it needs to be paid He charges me around £300  and that's it

    My Company has a Tax advisor & a Large Accountancy Practice with IFA,s

    They give me strategy advice on all my business I pay around £80.00 and I can Talk with my Tax Advisor who is a Landlord and an Ex NLA rep

    I use him as a sounding board and pick his brains regarding Taxation

    But I still keep up to date myself with Regulation and Taxation

    I just see it as part of being a Landlord

    GDRP is a great example of what I mean I attended a Solicitors presentation and learned what I had to do ??



    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    All comments are for casual information purposes only. If you wish to rely on any advice I have given please ensure you obtain independent specialist advice from a third party. No liability is accepted for comments made.

    Thank you Tony, that is really insightful information.  Unless we are very wealthy and our accountants are in a big firm, challenging the HMRC status quo is a scary proposition.

    Will bear the credentials in mind going forward.

    Also dyslexic landlord- thanks as well. Partnership working, I suppose it is. I do all the leg work too for our accountant and he does a dual return, overall the costs are higher than yours by a third. That seemed fair to me but with no advice, maybe that's what I'm questioning.


    get yourself an accountant who has a property portfolio and specialises in property in their practice.  There is one who posts on this board but I don't know if I am allowed to say who  it is.  Email me off the board and I'll give you details.