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  • Stickies & Evergreen

    I am out of BTL ... and emotional about it!



    I am only a small 'accidental' (but professional) landlord (and long time lurker).

    My wife and I currently have 3 relatively high value tenanted properties (houses) in the South East, wholly owned. Yields have always been low at around 4%, but I think typical for the south East, and have provided a good overall income / growth.

    Recently a difficult tenant has made me review all the numbers in some detail and think outside the box. I have also considered worries I have about low to no Capital growth over the coming years, and the results of any upcoming General election / landlord bashing.

    I have concluded that, after 15 years, I will be far better off to sell up now and invest the relatively significant capital in other devices. I will make more, for far less hassle and with greater flexibility than I can currently foresee with property. Not all my money is in property, so I can make some direct and real comparisons about this. I just never expected to be driven to a point in BTL where the factors would change so significantly.

    I have very mixed feelings after 15 years, but the numbers are clear, and that is without the political uncertainty! This BTL capital, properly invested by my IFA will allow me and the wife to kick back, be comfortable and do other things, (and I am only 48).

    A sad day and I do feel emotional, but in some ways I also feel liberated. I just have to sell 3 properties now!

    I am sure many other smaller landlords will, (unfortunately) eventually reach the same conclusions as I have, and until recently I saw property as a big part of my future, but all the current political factors have changed that.

    Such a shame, but I believe I am now doing exactly what the government intended, and I don't even have to worry about S24!

    Good Luck All.

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    I totally understand how you feel.  However, don't be too hasty.

    Let the world turn another two times before you fully decide.

    Listen to feedback here and see if any other ideas come up that you were not aware of and therefore had not considered.

    I feel largely the same as you which is why I am considering putting our properties into a REIT.

    See - REITS - Real Estate Investment Trusts 

    ​If you must sell up, then you could put all three properties on Vesta as a tenanted portfolio, and sell them without having to evict your tenants.

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    You are doing the right thing in my opinion

    I have a project of Build To Rent at present and I have been a landlord for a long time

    I enjoy business and I can endure stress in a fair Business world

    The stress I have at present is quite high I am fighting to stand still I think I am well informed and professional Landlord

    But even I with high yields is thinking of throwing in the towel

    There are  much more tax efficient places to invest with a lot less stress and hassle

    I have yet to take my Pension to court because I haven't received my Pension

    I am sure you see my point

    we can sit here and think of new strategy's Company or otherwise

    But the bottom line is the Govt doesn't want our services

    It dosent matter how good and investment is if your so highly taxed and regulated the net profit is so low at the end of the year i

    Then its not worth doing

    I would rather take my money and invest in other areas as I have said

    If I can get 8% which I can in other areas I will be happy

    If I can have less stress from Govt changes I would be happy

    There is a time to call it a day and I am very close too that point

    Others here will say stay BTL is the best place for your money

    I am not sure this will be the case going forward

    Enjoy your money and enjoy your life If you have done well from BTL enjoy the profits you have behind you

    I wish you all the best DL.

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    Learn Change and Adapt ?????


    If you are only getting a yield of 4% and , as your name suggests, you are an expat, then selling up while you have little or no CGT liability is a VERY good idea.   As you know letting property is not just laying back in your hammock and letting the money flow in.  Yes, when things go well it is a great earner, but when things go bad it can be VERY EMOTIONAL and STRESSFUL.

    Look at your CGT liabilities before selling all three properties, it may be best for you to ensure they are jointly owned by you and your wife and you may wish to sell them in different tax years to minimise CGT liability.

    When you have sold and you have the money in your grubby paw, please do not rely completely on your IFA to choose and run your investments, remember it's your money and NOBODY will look after it as well as you do.  IFAs will earn their pound of flesh if your investments do badly, ok, well or very well.  Swat up on how to invest to make money and together with your IFA invest your money wisely.

    Good luck for the future.

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    If someone has been a Landlord they will know there way around money

    I use and IFA and pick his brains and his fund selection as a base But I self invest 80% of my cash in platforms which charges are low

    There is so much info at a touch of a button you can soon find your way I have returned over 8% Tax Free since I started investing in other assets

    But Its like all investments you need to educate yourself and enjoy yourself

    The Enjoyment of BTL has left me now and That's why I know its time to move on



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    Learn Change and Adapt ?????


    Out of curiosity which platform do you use to invest from? Have you had a look at passive funds? I'm looking at AJ Bell platform.

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    Hi, I have worked in the financial services industry for 12 years, managing money for others and working in an investment bank advising institutional clients on their investments.  8% after tax on your returns is simply not sustainable. The markets have had a good run of late, and virtually all markets around the world are at all time highs.  I am not saying that we are going to see big falls from here, or a collapse etc.  I am though going to categorically say that you should not take this rate of return for granted, as the norm is closer to 6% pre-tax over the longer term.


    When making your investment decisions, or advising others on theirs (as you seem to be doing here), you need to make sure you're using the correct benchmark.

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    I am lucky not to be a professional anymore I am not restrictive by regs I just give fag packet stuff from my own experience I look very long term on managed funds and I have found over the long term good results and if they are tax free what is there not to like

    intoday’s market of higher taxation IFA has an important role to play

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    Learn Change and Adapt ?????


    You have done well but it seems you are  not wedded to property in the true sense of the word

    That  probably is just as  healthy  as someone who is but it also  naturally affects your decision making process

    Thats not a positive or negative statement . Just an observation

    You can take therefore a more objective view than others like me who have their lives wrapped up in it

    3 properties are not hassle in my eyes its a pleasurable garlic mushroom  starter before the much tastier main course

    I probably  would leave them be but I am not you so pay no attention

    If no mortgages though , no sec 24 so there  must be stronger other influences for you to now  opt out

    But you have other ambitions I can see in other directions so fair play to you

    I speculate now  ....

    3 unencumbered relatively high value in the SE you say -

    That makes them maybe 333K a piece so you are a millionaire !

    You could expand your portfolio to say 30 and give the difficult tenants to an agent to sort out

    Over an extended period then.......

    30 @ 100K @  70% LTV  =   3 million portfolio @5% growth  pa = £410 each and every  day before breakfast 

    Thats before rental income and adding value and buying well . But scaling up is  not for everyone I agree

    Hope your IFA can beat that  though

    An IFA can of course be a source of ease and comfort as its  their brain that takes the strain

    But I like my brain being in charge

    So  the  question I would ask myself before i jumped ship is ...

    Does my IFA really know property

    The ones I`ve met do not compare like for like sometimes  as they are IFA`s not property investors

    Many IFA`s work till their 60 . A good IFA who starts at 20 should surely be done by 40

    Just saying

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    Jonathan Clarke. http://www.buytoletmk.com

    Many landlords work to beyond 60, landlords start at various ages but many would be in a position to be done by 40 - 45 but keep going, not a sign if a good landlord or not.  Just because an IFA is still going at 60 doesn’t mean they are not a good IFA.

    IFAs that look after investment portfolios are generally remunerated as a small percentage of assets under management and will therefore receive a regular income, in some ways a bit like a landlord’s rental income only their portfolio is other peoples' investments with perhaps six monthly reviews with their clients.

    Just saying.

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    How right you are I worked with a IFA years ago who loved his job

    he worked until he was in his 80s

    a true gent and a very wealthy gent


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    Learn Change and Adapt ?????