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  • HMO & Multi-Lets

    Fire door requirements

    Hi

    I'm putting in internal fire doors. I can source FD30 doors, and the fitter has said he can put them in according to regulations in the existing frames, but the council have said unless they are fitted with matching casings, then i will have to pay to have them independently certified as being up to code.

    Can the council force me to pay to certify it, or is the onus on the council to show that it isn't compliant?

    thanks

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    Hi Vimto, the Council are correct.  We have had this from our local Council's on numerous occasions and have even had one of UK's most qualified experts in fire safety give us an independent opinion on the matter.  Unfortunately the only way to show that the old frames are compliant is to remove them, set them on fire and see if they last 30 minutes ie.  It can't be done.

    The doors should come with certification and the frame needs to be certified as suitable for that size and type of door (not all are the same).  Our Council even insists on photographic evidence that the doors have been correctly fitted with fire retardant sealant, and if we don't have photos they make us take the architraves off to prove it.

    The days of upgrading existing door casings are well and truly over.  You need to replace them along with the doors if FS30 standard is required.

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    Andrew McCausland

    Managing Director Hamilton Square Estates Ltd

    Proprietor Wirral Property Group

    Sourcing and renovating investment property since 1994

    PS.  The onus is on you to prove that what you do meets standards, not the Council.

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    Andrew McCausland

    Managing Director Hamilton Square Estates Ltd

    Proprietor Wirral Property Group

    Sourcing and renovating investment property since 1994

    "the fitter has said he can put them in according to regulations in the existing frames, but the council have said unless they are fitted with matching casings, then i will have to pay to have them independantly certified as being up to code."

    So if the fitter has said that the FD30s can be fitted according to regs in the existing frames, how come the council are saying something different?

    What is the reason for fire doors being fitted and why is there an involvement from the council? What type of property is it (eg HMO, 3 storeys etc. etc), as others in a similar position could benefit from the answer?

    Back in 2010/2011 I fitted fire doors into existing frames so I'd be interested to know why you have to rip out the frames.

    More info please!

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    its 3 storeys, but its a question of the burden of proof, and extra costs to comply

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    Thank you. Have you had a look at the very long LACORS PDF document (search on google) which may have a similar property to yours as a case study?

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    The regs have changed since 2011 and fire door casings are now required when a fire door is specified.  You can no longer upgrade existing frames or casings. 

    Also, the height element of the HMO licensing requirements was removed in October so even a bungalow may now need to be licensed. All HMO'S not subject to licensing are subject to management regulations so be aware of the need for action following any fire risk assessment too.

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    Andrew McCausland

    Managing Director Hamilton Square Estates Ltd

    Proprietor Wirral Property Group

    Sourcing and renovating investment property since 1994


    Andrew

    In respect of your first paragraph and the Regulations changing in 2011, can you advise which regulations were changed and the section that this requirement is contained in.

    Thanks

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    The relevant regulations for fire doors are BS 8214:2016. I can't tell you the section as you can't download them for free . You will  need to buy a copy from the BSI.

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    Hi Ian,

    The information is in the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government document:

    ADVICE NOTE 16
    MHCLG/BSP/Advice Note/16/160518

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    Andrew McCausland

    Managing Director Hamilton Square Estates Ltd

    Proprietor Wirral Property Group

    Sourcing and renovating investment property since 1994

    Thanks Andrew

    Having read this document its a key thing for any flat owners to be aware of, especially with Councils focusing on Fire Safety in flat complexes.

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