Browse All Tribes or choose a Tribe below:
By signing up I agree to Property Tribes Terms and Conditions
Already a PT member? Log In
Sign Up With Facebook, Twitter, or Google
By signing up, I agree to Property Tribes Terms and Conditions
Already a PT member? Log In
Don't have an account? Sign Up
To reset your password just enter the email address you registered with and we'll send you a link to access a new password.
Dear all, I am thinking of transferring 4 btl properties into a limited company & had the following questions if anyone can kindly oblige:
1. Do these all have to be done together?
2. My kids are aged 17 & 18 and I am thinking of giving them shares in the company and was wondering if this would help with CGT/IHT/Income tax?
3. Can kids use their personal allowance through a limited co? or is this done when they take dividends?
4. Is it best to allocate shares at the outset or can we gift as and when?
5. Should we otherwise set up a limited co just for the kids, with say one/two properties? not sure if we could get waiver of cgt in this scenario?
6. Re. cgt, I understand it can be waived if this is our only business - if so, will the cgt be deferred at our original purchase price or is it taken from the point & value of the transfer to the ltd co?
7. Not sure if stamp duty is payable ?
You really need a property tax adviser to answer all your questions professionally. I have just registered a limited company so seeked tax advise before I started. Was advised that I should have my 2 girls as B Shareholders from the outset as it is more complicated from the inheritance tax and share valuation point of view if they are added later. I did not follow their advice though as my mortgage adviser advised against that arrangement at this stage as mortgage options would significantly reduce. So when I get to your stage in a few years, I am unsure what I would do really. I wanted to set up the company and allow it to grow in the first 5-7 years.
I am aware that you would need to purchase the properties through your limited company again - so SDLT would be payable.
Some lenders will accept more than the usual max 4 shareholders if they minors. .B shares can be issued at anytime and the new shareholders will enjoy any gain in the property value from the point of the share issue..Be aware though the costs of issuing the new shares can be pretty high
I think you have in mind S162 incorporation relief.From your description i doubt very much you will be able to take that route.
Of course you need tax advice and I am not a tax advisor (disclaimer).
But I am in a similar position and can pass on my understanding of IHT planning:
A BTL business (called an "investment" business) will not attract Business Property Relief, so your gifts will be viewed as Potentially Exempt Transfers - there will be no IHT liability after 7 years (with some taper relief earlier). With this in mind the sooner you make the gift the better.
SDLT will be payable.
Tax on withdrawing monies from the company is complicated and you will want to get proper advice. Problematic is that you will pay corporation tax on profits, and then income tax or tax on dividends = double taxation.
The transaction that you are considering has a number of consequences and so the answers cannot be provided without knowing full details of your portfolio, your requirements for income after the transaction, your other income, what sort of finance you have in place, etc. So seek professional advice.
However, in summary the tax reliefs from CGT only apply to businesses, so your property portfolio would need to constitute a business. In addition stamp duty would be payable on the transfer of the properties, although multiple dwellings relief may apply.
If you have mortgages on the properties then these would probably need to be repaid and thus incurring new arrangement fees and possible less favourable terms from a corporate mortgage.
Thanks all for your input. As always with these scenarios, multiple questions pop in and out of your head. I will seek professional advice, however, as you may be aware, this often varies from advisor to advisor.
Peter, I am wary of the double taxation element, however, as we will both be in higher tax brackets, feel this would still be lower via company structure? that is unless the govt changes the laws around this and presuming they will be retrospective.
Even if we sell, then we will pay a lower rate of cgt. though not sure if we can all use our cgt allowances here?
What would be best way to utilise 2 children's personal allowances (for university costs) & can this be effective through a ltd co via dividends or otherwise?
Not sure if all properties have to be transferred in together?
If we cannot obtain mortgages easily, we could lend the ltd co the money?
sks, My conclusion was a company is tax efficient if you plan to grow the company, ie retain all profits), but to withdraw monies the best you can do is break even by paying out in the form of dividends. Your plans are more complicated than mine and it seems you need good advice and some clear thinking.
The limited company route is most definitely not the way to go (see below).
The transactional costs
The value of your time to one side, moving from being a private landlord to a corporate one will incur you in the following costs: -
Whilst not in themselves direct transactional costs, being a commercial borrower impacts you in the following ways: -
The tax position
Limited Companies and the individuals within them are taxed up to seven different ways: -
Less Tax For Landlords
Thanks Tony, very useful indeed.
Do you think it would be better then to simply gift a % of the property to children, increasing over time and allocating some rental income to them?