Sign Up


By signing up I agree to Property Tribes Terms and Conditions

Already a PT member? Log In

Sign Up

Sign Up With Facebook, Twitter, or Google


By signing up, I agree to Property Tribes Terms and Conditions

Already a PT member? Log In

Log In


Don't have an account? Sign Up

Forgot Password

To reset your password just enter the email address you registered with and we'll send you a link to access a new password.

Already a PT member? Log In

Don't have an account? Sign Up

  • Property-a-holics

    Morality of the PRS

    hi all ,

    sat at a dinner party at the weekend listening to a friend of a friend spouting off his social and political views on the world including his thoughts on housing .

    in his words he found it morally wrong that people use housing as a means to accumulate wealth when there are People who are unable to own their own home. Not one to use a social setting to Air my views on such matters I sat and listened and kept my views to myself, but did wonder what the good people of property tribes would say in response to his remarks.

    I have read many posts on here of late taking of politicians lack of understanding of the positive role the prs plays but would be great if someone could clarify this for me . I'm sure many of you will have had similar sentiments aimed in your direction over the years so would be really interested to hear how you respond ,




    Yeah its morally wrong that people drive cars and cause accidents or god built Beachy Head and people throw themselves off it.Tell him he is a Stalinist pratt and de friend him by text NOW


    i think to call someone a Stalinist Pratt across a dinner table would of probably curtailed my evening early...and the pudding was creme brûlée !


    It's a common belief and understandable as we have many issues in housing.

    I think it's a misdirected anger. They see landlords buying properties - yet there kids can not, social housing waiting lists are huge and rents take up large proportion income.

    There is nothing immoral about providing housing.

    The real issue is lack of housing, need to build. A good mix for homeowners, tenants and taxpayer subsidised housing.



    The above post is not financial advice, its often me rambling - passing time on a coffee break.
    If you are looking for the Best BTL Mortgage? Call the Specialist Team at Bespoke Finance.


    It is only the chattering privileged classes that have these concerns

    Most can afford to buy just not in London and the Shires where most of the irrelevant chattering classes reside

    They engender an unrealistic sense  of entitlement  in their siblings.

    This then results in stupid taxes like S24.

    The chattering classes have a lot to answer for

    There are plenty of affordable properties just not in the SE where all the entitled GR live and want to live.

     We often accuse those from the benefit classes

    I consider GR as far more feckless

    They could easily save and buy a property in a cheaper area.

    Something that is not a possibility for the usual feckless.

    But GR refuse to do so.


    Not worth bothering responding to p###ks like that.

    As part of the chattering classes their views are of no relevance

    Mist read the Guardian which just shows you where their naive  ideas come from.

    In Utopia there would be no housing costs;  it would all be free.

    But we live in the real world

    There is no place for morality.

    The PRS is a device  to extract income from others  the same as any other business

    Any business  could be described as amoral.

    Others  would call it trading

    In exchange for recognised methods of exchange a provider of an asset  is paid for usage of that asset which they would otherwise be unable to afford.

    There is nothing  immoral about trading

    It has been making the world go round since human beings existed.

    These sanctimonious Guardianistas just need to be ignored.


    Agree with your thoughts , 

    to clarify from my original question , how do you see the PRS plays a positive role in society or otherwise ?


    Also would have to disagree with the " no place for morality "

    have read many posts where you have commmented on the excellent standards of living you provide for your tenants , surely there is a part of you that makes the decision to not cut corners and further extend your profit margins from a moral standpoint or I'm guessing you will argue it's purely a business decision - rentintion of tenant etc ?


    Well as far as morality is concerned to the extent that I consider I should offer a decent service and charge accordingly then I suppose there is some moralistic stance.

    It wouldn't be acceptable  to charge more than what the service was worth.

    If I was unable to offer such a service then I wouldn't be a LL.

    It is only right that a fair price is charged  for an asset in demand  whatever that price point may be.

    There must be a place for the PRS the same as there is a need for hotels etc.

    The PRS meets a need; but at market prices

    If tenants can't afford or choose not to afford a property in a particular  area that is their problem.

    There is invariably somewhere cheaper they can rent.

    Nobody has the right to rent where they want to be  if they aren't prepared  to pay the going rate that the market requires.

    Of course that means that society makes a choice to house those in State provided accommodation  at lower prices than the market demands

    That is a political  choice. It could be construed as a moral political  choice

    Though having the sweaty masses marauding around unhoused would be unwise for society cohesion.

     So pragmatically  it makes sense for the State to play a major part in housing.

    It is just a price that taxpayers have to pay

    I don't mind doing that

    What I do object to is RTB where State owned assets have been sold off at less than market price

    These invariably  have been bought off the RTB owner who were usually feckless and had to sell after a while to a LL. .

    Then the State pays far more in HB than they ever did when the property was owned by the State

     As for retention reasons etc

    Most businesses  never presume there will always be a stream of customers.

    So most LL make pragmatic business decisions and manage their services to ensure there will always be a new customer

    The best advert for a LL  is a satisfied former tenant.

    They are your best sales force

    I am still having successful tenant referrals from a tenant I had 5 years ago..What goes around comes around.

    But even if they didn't  it still wouldn't sit right with me to behave like rogue LL.

    I have never sought to profit out of others  misery

    I do require market prices though as I am not in a position  to be a charity.

    There are many in business who attempt to provide sub standard products for market prices.

    That would not be moral

    There are over 300000 illegal LL  breaching their mortgage conditions  to offer accommodation.

    These are known in the parlance as Accidental  LL.

    They are acting in a highly immoral way the same as those LL  who let out to HB tenants in breach of lender conditions and those who offer tenancy terms longer than the lender allows.

     So I am all for moralistic LL

    Many aren't!


    This view that the PRS is immoral is based on several false assumptions:

    - Landlords are only interested in profit and have no ethics or social conscience.

    - Tenants would rather buy.

    - If there were no private landlords there would be no housing crisis.

    - It is better for taxpayers' money to go into the pockets of big business than to lots of ordinary little landlords with a few properties to supplement their pensions.

    - There is an ethical difference between providing taxpayer funds for housing and for other things like food and clothing.

    All of these assumptions are false.

    Most landlords, with the exception of criminal ones, try to provide nice homes for a fair price. To do anything else makes no sense as good landlords get more choice of tenant, fewer voids and happy, helpful tenants. When I ask my tenants why they don't buy, they say they are not ready for the commitment. They are upwardly mobile; just like me when I was their age.

    One of my tenants recently asked me for a reference so she could apply for a council house. She's a good tenant and I was happy to oblige. Now she says they have assessed her and say she is low priority because she already has an affordable home.  

    As a landlord, I am not part of the problem; I am part of the solution. There is so much goodwill amongst landlords and yet there is a wholesale failure on the part of government, councils and charities to harness that. I've had nothing but support from my tenants, who feel the onslaught against the private rental sector as much as landlords do.  

    Your friend is well-meaning but muddle headed. Providing housing at a fair price is no different from providing food, clothing, education or work. All of these involve a bit of profit if well managed, and sometimes loss as some in the private rental sector are now finding; thanks to this most unsupportive government.


    Absolutely  brilliant post

    Should be posted in the Guardian comments section next time they have ANOTHER negative LL  piece

    There will be one coming along soon! !!