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  • Landlord Resources

    propertyinvestmentsuk - Rob Jones

    Hello,

    Just wondering if anyone has used this gentleman or his comppany to source a property or have purchased his training materials. There is very little I can find on google - positive or negative - apart from details on the website itself which apart from some spelling mistakes looks reasonably legitimate. Feedback would be appreciated.

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    Hi  Jethro,

    I've been in the property sector for 13 years and I've not heard anything about this individual.  I believe I have heard of most of them, but he's new to me.

    I did a quick search on DueDil and his company does not look like it is very successful or doing much business.  It is about 2 years old and has total assets of less than £5K.  He has 3 active companies - all property related - but there is very little financial information or trading history, so it is hard to assess.

    This company would need to be a member of an Ombudsman Scheme to be trading compliantly. I don't see any mention of that on his website.

    This thead may help shape your thinking as to what you need to consider about yourself:

    Are there any good/ethical property sourcers or gurus out there? 

    See also - 8 signs you are about to be the victim of a property scam

    Worth bearing in mind that property sourcing is completely unregulated other than, by law, they need to be a member of an Ombudsman scheme.  Most of them aren't, so you have no form of redress if things go wrong.

    You could contact him and ask:

    1.  How many property deals and clients is he dealing with?

    2.  Which Ombudsman Scheme he is a member of?

    3.  What are the fees payable upfront?  (Be very wary of large fees paid upfront).

    4.  Can he direct you to clients who have completed on a deal so that you can chat to them about their experience with him?

    5.  Can he give you a recent deal to analyse?  You can then cross-check figures with Rightmove and the Land Registry to see if they stack up.

    Proceed with caution and see what response you get to legitimate enquiries.

    Hope that gives you something to be going on with?

    You could also post here what you are hoping to achieve in property and the community may be able to guide you. Smile

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    Thanks,

    That's a very detailed response, much appreciated.

    Basically I manage my own ltb property in Reading which was my first home. I've sourced and managed the same tenants for over 2 years now. They are in their third year at present. I generally do my own repairs, but sometimes use a local builder for certain repairs.

    I'm looking at buying in Manchester area for around £125k as I can release about £30k equity from existing btl property and keep the mortage at 60%ltv. I'd then be looking at a new property on a 75% ltv deal, so around 120 - 130k max.

    Truth is I'm pretty nervous about how to go about finding a house that is right for me. Ideally I want some capital appreciation, along with good yields hence why I think over 20 or so years Salford, Manchester etc could be good.

    I want long term tenants, so maybe a family.

    As I will be very far away I'll need a hands of approach, which is what makes me nervous re sourcing and having the property managed.

    I guesse I'm looking for a little help, and want some hand holding re sourcing the right property for me. If I need to pay for this service, then so be it - within reason.

    Any ideas?

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    Even the 7 day trial of the training looks expensive to me.

    I really doubt there is anything Mr Jones could teach you that you can't learn on this very forum, just by reading / watching.

    Whilst I might be doing him a disservice, if his £4k programme of people wanting to buy 5+ properties in a year is full, then for him to have sufficient deals left over to offer to other punters just wanting a single property (for a lower per fee property) makes me question the quality of his deals.

    If you haven't got time to do the things he offers go do for £3k, then maybe a remote btl isn't the best option for you. He is essentially offering to do things that you can do for yourself, with no real requirement for specialist knowledge, but at an hourly rate that would make all but the most senior in most professions blush.

    At the end of the day though, it is your money to spend as you will.

    Think of remote btl this way. If he charges £3k to do this simple stuff, how many months rent will it cost you if something goes wrong and you have to have it put right?

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    Hi J,

    The simple thing to do is search on Rightmove for "tenanted properties" or contact local Lettings agents to see if they know of any tenanted properties for sale.

    A tenanted property will let you know the exact yield you will achieve and also have a track record of rental payments.  You will also enjoy income from Day One of ownership.

    Put it on s fully managed service with a reputable letting agent and you are sorted!

    No big fees upfront and no doubts!  Simpulz!! Smile

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    Hi Jethro & Property Tribes,

    I've just been sent this link by a client of ours who mentioned it to me so I thought it would be a good chance to introduce myself and help answer some of the questions above,

    Firstly it's worth me pointing out, I'm not that busy on social media, forums or property groups, i've nothing against them I just geniunely don't have much free time in my work schedule so I chose a long time ago that it wouldn't be a large part of what we do within the business, that includes regular personal use and deleting facebook of my phone for starters has been a fantastic time saver, as I said I've nothing against it it simply stops me getting distracted and helps me focus my time better,

    To help answer the questions above, I'll start from the top and work down taking them in order if that's ok

    > So spelling mistakes.... yep there's likely to be one or two of them and I get shouted at constantly by my wife, friends and clients too who do spot them, this unfortunately isn't going to change, of course I use spell check but a few always slip through, I can live with that and hope you guys can too, if you like the content on the site I'm sure it can still work great for you and hopefully doesn't distract you.

    Hi Vanessa, to help answer your points too I'll cover these next as this is the order the comments have come in,

    > Great that you've been in Property for 13 years, I've been in it for 10 years too and no offence but I've never spoke to you either, doesn't mean either of us are bad eggs, just more likely we don't network in the same spots. As mentioned above I'm not one for social media, strange in this day and age maybe, but I focus my time on local networking (i'm based in Manchester), google search - we get some decent traffic from organic search to our site with the content we create, and youtube. I'm just not busy on facebook commenting on all the groups, as unfortunately, as I'm sure you've seen that can get quiet nasty at parts and is very promotional in many aspects, distracting from the original aim of supporting users, i'll confess I'm much quieter than that and work on the elements I mention above.

    In fact creating video's still scares the hell out of me but I do it for the business and our clients, facebook groups though don't interest me so I tend to stay off them and spend the time in other parts of our business and family life.

    I might be new to some people on forums or groups but I've been investing in property for 10+ years (since 2005) and was asked to talk on Radio 4 in 2014 so i'm not a newbie to property. (BBC Radio 4 Article - BBC Radio 4 Audio & Article)

    I was also featured in YPN on a two part HMO feature article in March & April 2016.

    > We always encourage clients to do due diligence on any property they work on so I've got no issue with duedil checks or reference / personal reference checks at all. We have a couple of different property companies for different parts of our business. Property training is just one part and a small part of the business we do. Were not like the larger training companies and we don't intend to be, likewise we don't charge £10-20k for training like they do either.

    I belive training and education should be much more accesible than that, and if it's structured training a client wants, we price this at £497 and that includes all the training materials and support, we keep it this price to make it accessiable, not so I can live of training income. This isn't a sales pitch by the way, and I deleted the above line 3 times before I kept it in, but I kept it there as I think it's directly relevant to the comment so I hope that's ok.

    In addition my personal portfolio is held under a sole trader not a ltd company, this is for multiple reasons, so as part of that on companies house you may be looking simply at one of the elements of what we do. Hope that helps.

    > You mention the ombudsman scheme, don't worry we are part of the property ombudsman, and this is clearly mentioned on our website, so sorry you couldn't see it but its right at the top of the home page and on the right hand column on the blog pages. I have tried to put the link below to our ombudsman membership but the url simply goes to the find a member, but if you search for property investments uk on the property ombudsman website I can re-assure you were there. Hope this helps.

    > You asked some other questions on the due diligence side of things so happy to answer that for you

    1). How many property deals and clients is he dealing with?

    This flucutates from time to time however as we speak we are working with one joint venture client on multiple projects and three sourcing clients on long term individual requirements. Were not a large company and we don't profess to be. I chose a number of years back to stay boutique and not go large, it's myself and a business partner that work on the sourcing side of what we do, not a team of 100 staff. So for that reason we only have the capacity to take on a limited number of clients at any one time other wise we simply wouldn't have the time to fulfil the requirements. We could go and hire staff but it's not the business model I want to create. Smaller, higher quality client base and quality of life is what I aim for, clients we have good ongoing realtionships with and many we work with again and again. Again this isn't a sales pitch, I'm not trying to create scarcity or anything ike that, it's simply the business model we have, I like to work with clients directly not outsource it to a new trainee.

    2). As above we are a member of the property ombudsman

    3). We don't charge clients any fee up front for an initial consultation. If a client wants to work with us on one of the services we offer (consultancy, training and sourcing) then it depends on the service. Consultancy and training are payable up front as is the nature of the service, and the sourcing is secured by way of a commitment reservation (as we lock in a clients place and head out to find deals directly for them so we invest time and resources for this), this is a £500 reservation fee which is paid in to escrow not to us directly, we never hold clients funds like this. For this we use a company called Transpact or the client can pay it to their own solicitor and their solicitor can hold it if they wish.

    4). Happy for potential customers to speak to past and current clients, we have testimonials on our site and youtube channel but I appreciate people want to speak to clients directly and that could be to joint venture partners, training clients or consultancy clients, we often get asked this and is something were happy to do.

    5).  Yes this is no problem, clients are always more than welcome to come on site and look at recent deals if they wish too, or if they're out of area we can give details of the property and financials if they wish to check it out on their desktop that's no problem.

    Hope that helps Vanessa and gives Jethro and the rest of the property tribes readers some context on the questions you asked

     To help you with your search for Manchester property Jethro, of course you don't need to work with a property sourcer there are plenty of ways to find the deal yourself if your ok for time and to do viewings. Locations I would suggest for a £125k budget would be South Manchester if you can get it but that is getting harder and harder in the right locations and it also depends on what yield your targeting, a good yield will be different for every investor and it may be a case of looking at that first and working backwards on locations that fit.

    Here is a youtube video that will help you get started - On how to find property deals in Manchester

    It's from 2013 now but the information is still very relevant and the techniques shown are still a great way to check new locations so hope that helps you Jethro,

    I've also done a quick search for you on some possible locations and put in some filters to pinpoint a bit closer to the spots that many people tend to prefer.

    - https://goo.gl/ls5MZZ

    Hope that helps Smile

    > Hi Pipllman, I think you may have read the pricing wrong on the 7 day trial for the Online Property Training we do, as this is priced at only £1.

    This is so it gives people a chance to see if it is right for them and if so it goes on to the normal payment of £497 after 7 days, but you can cancel at anytime during the 7 day trial and it will only cost £1. We also do a 30 day money back guarantee so if people don't like it for any reason we give them a full refund. I would much prefer clients to be very happy with their training and the service and content than for them to pay for something they don't feel is right.

    If it's not obvious the 7 day trial payment is only £1 then that's my mistake and I'll get our tech guy to change it on the site as it should be very clear.

    Regarding the content I'm of course biased and would say that it's great and is well worth it for all members that join, but I know people will take my view on the training as biased so that's why we have real client testimonials and offer the 7 day trial so people can see for themselves. Hope that helps clear it up a little

    > On the property sourcing we do, we have a £4k per property service which is for 5+ properties and a £3k ready made deal service.

    The tailored sourcing is what we do for portfolio clients (5+ properties). This is very detailed and in depth and we source for clients specific requirements. If you want 50% we of course can't do that and are upfront on that, BMV isn't the be all and end all, but if you want a particular location, target tenant profile and target rental yield then we do multiple viewings and various sourcing methods to help find clients the right property to fit their aims.

    The other deals that we have available on the site as ready made deals (the one's at £3k) are different properties and fit different requirements.

    So for example. If we have a client we have been asked to source Professional HMO's for on the 5+ properties service then we will just source for them, we won't take on another customer looking for the same property and these properties do not go on the website, they go direct to that client. We do multiple and consistent viewings to find the properties.

    The one's that go on the website as ready to go deals, come from close contacts we have (letting agents, refurbishment teams, other local property sourcers) and direct to vendor leads, so there not sourced to order and as such don't take as much physical time to find, they also vary in what they are from location to property type/strategy so rarely are a direct fit for the clients were working with on a tailored sourcing basis (who often have very tight postcode and location criteria) hence the lower investment, due to the lower time commitment needed. Hope that helps explain it a little.

    > With regards to our hourly rate and the price of the service, this is very much inline with other sourcing options, but essentially is a price that works for both our clients and us. We have to earn a living and a lot of time goes in to sourcing property that I'm sure many don't realise. We could view 10+ properties before we find the right deal for a client, shortlisting potentials, viewing properties, negotiating, 2nd viewings with trades, this all takes time and quickly add's up. We don't profess to hold some magical elixir that clients can't do for themselves, but we do have good local knowledge and contacts and for clients that wish to utilise their time more efficently our services work very well for them. I'm sure it's not for everyone but no service is or ever would be.

    I hope that helps answer your original question Jethro and also the follow up questions from Vanessa and Pipllman, I'm always happy to help answer any clients questions and if were a fit for them that's great, if not or were fully committed with other clients then I will always try and help point any new enquires from people in the right direction to other companies, services or contacts to help them get started.

    Robert

    p.s. - if there are any follow up questions please bear with me if it takes a day or two to respond, as I said I'm not prolific on social media or forums and often i'm out most of the week on site, at viewings or I take time off with family, hope you understand.

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    Hi Robert.

    Congratulations for you clarity in explain your business! Is reassuring for everybody as me who is considering to learn from your experience!


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    Hi Rob,

    Welcome to Property Tribes and thank you for bringing such clarity to your proposition.

    Just to be clear, I did not have any view on you, either way.  

    I just asked some general questions that I would recommend anyone ask any deal sourcer.

    Great to hear you are a member of an Ombudsman scheme. Smile

    Unfortunately, there are a lot of unscrupluous deal sourcers doing the rounds at the moment, so I  for one am pleased to see you differentiating yourself by your Ombudsman membership and also by your engagement here.

    Thank you for your responses and contribution.  No one is criticising you, just wanting clarity, and you have provided that.

    Hopefully you will stick around and contribute more here and hopefully enjoy some of our other discussions. Smile

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    Thanks Vanessa,

    Looks like a lot of great content here for users and a great community well done Smile

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