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I currently have a couple of single BTL's and due to cash flow, have being looking to go into R2R, I know this strategy is somewhat controversial but believe I need to come up with something to improve my property.
As we all know there are many so call 'Mentors' out there, has anyone achieved success through R2R with a Mentor.
My biggest problem at the moment is 'chickening out of deals' as I am looking in the Oxford area and rent is very expensive for a 4/5 bedroom house. So need someone to help me get my first deal so to speak.
For £5k I will happily tell you what to do, sod it, I will tell you for free...………...forget it.
Honestly though, if you already have 2 BTL's you have done the hard part, work hard on saving a deposit for a third If you want more property.
Stewardson Developments Ltd.
Burson Land Ltd. & Jennings & Gilchreaste Ltd.
Follow me on twitter - @philstewardson
Thank you, how did you start in your property journey?
We are talking of a long time ago, mid 90's. We saved hard, borrowed money out of another business we had at the time, bought the first one for cash @£20,500, did a bit of work, revalued and geared up against it. There were no BTL loans then though, just Sall Business loans @10% fixed, bank managers actually had some say then & would just drive past to check the house was really there and then send you the money. There were lots of twists and turns along the way & the story is covered in a couple of Property Geek podcasts with the 2 Robs.
I have always wondered since then if it would be possible to start again with a small lump of cash, so 5yrs ago I set about finding out. It is possible but certainly not as easy. Now i think is even harder to start from scratch, too much regulation, uncertainly and a market that's raving bonkers. You dont have that worry though Will, you have a real headstart, tread carefully and you will flourish.
Hi William,Rent to Rent is fraught with dangers and in the South East is even harder to get to stack up imho.What can you rent a property for and what can you let all the rooms for - taking into account if you are creating an HMO and all the compliance costs that come with that?When you deduct the rent, the insurance, the utilities, the council tax, the broadband costs, etc. what net profit are you left with?Can you afford to pay the landlord the rent if you do not fill all the rooms?Numbers never lie, so the first thing to do is to work them out and see if R2R is even a viable strategy in Oxford.
Vanessa Warwick Landlord and Co-Founder of PropertyTribes.com **If you have got value from Property Tribes, find out how you can support it in remaining a free to use community resource**
Thank you for your reply, completely understand your comments, what would you recommend is the best strategy for people starting out in their journey like myself. TIA
I would recommend saving for a deposit first and buying a property where your name is on the title and you have complete control over the asset. I know it's not as compelling as telling you that you'll be a millionaire in a year with no money, but its truthful and, unlike the gurus charging huge sums, it makes no difference to me whatever you decide to do. Therefore, my advice is impartial, although of course everyone has certain biases.You may find this thread partly explains my concerns over R2R. It tells the story of one of the UK's most high profile R2R trainers and how he ended up doing a runner because he couldn't make it work >>> The Icarus Syndrome (Daniel Burton and Unida Place)If you go down the R2R route, I fear you will end up buying a ticket to see a Unicorn. See - Property education, training, and mentoring
Hello William. If I were to hand over two of my HMOs to you - one five bedroom and one six bedroom, I wonder if you, or any other wannabee property manager, would feel sufficiently involved and committed to copy my last 36 hours.
I live 25 miles away from these two houses. At 11:00 p.m. on Tuesday evening a tenant rang to say that he had water dripping through his ceiling. Despite there being a big sign on the stairwell wall saying "EMERGENCY WATER OFF SWITCH " which he walks past ten times a day, he didn't know what to do. He has lived there for four years. I directed him to the switch which he eventually found. This is an IT consultant and who is very intelligent, but has little common sense. I drove to the house and ascertained the location of the leak under the floor boards in the room above. The tenant in that room had to be up at 6 for work so we made arrangements for the water to be switched back on briefly while people used the shower and had breakfast, and then be switched off again. I arrived home at 1:30 a.m. At 7:00 a.m. I called my plumber and we agreed to meet at 12 noon.
We spent the next two hours moving furniture in a very crowded bedroom, pulling the carpet back, and then pulling floorboards up. We found a pin hole in a cold water feed. The plumber spliced the pipe and fitted a new piece with compression joints. We then spent another hour putting floorboards back and relaying the carpet and trying to get the furniture back in place. During the process I broke the tenant's cooling fan so that's another cost.
I left there at about 4:00 p.m. to visit another HMO where I am having the garden landscaped. All was well there, except that not one of the six mature, intelligent, able bodied, professional tenants, in the house, had responded to my email of last Thursday, asking them to move the bin 10 yards down the drive, for collection on Friday morning. . They will happily call me to ask me to change a light bulb, which is a 50 mile round trip. But not one of them could get off their lazy arses to move a bin ten yards.
Consequently the bin was over flowing with burst bags, as the local fox had had a go at them. The maggots were just getting going, and no doubt the rats would follow in due course. I cleaned it all up, filled my car with this crap, and took it down the tip. This is a fairly common problem by the way.
As i was shoveling this shit up, I wondered if the person responsible in a Rent to Rent arrangement would do any of the above?
Would they respond to a leaking pipe? Had the water leak been left any longer, I think the whole ceiling would have collapsed. How would I go about explaining this to my insurance company when I make the claim? Did I have a managing agent? Did I take timely action? Did I do my best to limit any further damage?
Rubbish strewn down a drive and into the street is a health hazard, and would no doubt lead to complaints from the neighbours ( quite rightly too), and a visit from the HMO officer. Would the Rent to Renter be committed enough to fill his flash car with three weeks worth of maggot infested stinking crap, and take it to the tip? Or would he just shrug and leave them to it? If I remember correctly, my HMO licence application asked for a lot of detail on who would be managing the properties, were they fit and proper people? Were they suitably qualified? Were they members of any professional body? A poor response to a neighbour's complaint, could well jeapordise the granting of the next licence in three years time.
The Rent to Rent gurus don't tell you about days like this.
It's all so easy.
All you have to do is find some old git like me, who you think may have had enough of this nonsense, and I will gladly hand over half a million quid's worth of property for you to "manage". In your dreams.
I just can't shake off this feeling that once the day to day reality of managing several HMOs hits home, the " manager" will call it a day and take whatever money he has made, and disappear.
I completely understand where you are coming from, and thought the same thing 6 months ago, but sick of seeing people become successful through this strategy.
I take what I read about R to R success with a very large pinch of salt. The appearance of these self made millionaires on the front of numerous property magazines just raises my suspicions.
I still think R to R is the next disaster waiting to happen.
The fun will start at the end of the five year contract when the renters duck their obligation to give the property back in "pristine condition". That's if they hang around that long.
Hundreds of people thought Ben Rogers was a property millionaire, all based on his brilliance at doing lease options.
When he was made bankrupt, he had a sign written van, which the IP had to pay someone to tow away, a corner shop, a few BTLs, and two million quids worth of debt.
The irony was that had he already had a decent living from his handful of BTLs . Had he expanded his portfolio with one or two more purchases a year, he would be an equity millionaire by now.
William,When you do intense due diligence on these people who claim they are doing very well, you will mostly find that their Companies House profile is not one of a successful business person - that is if they even have a company .... There are a handful of people who do well out of R2R, but they run a professional operation with cash reserves and trained staff, and are also fully compliant to all legislation and provide a high quality product. They are the exception, not the rule imho.I live in Guildford and Rent to Rent does not stack up here at all, so it is also dependent on area to some degree.