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You make some excellant, balanced points and ask some very interesting questions. I will try to answer them the way i see things.
Yes, there should always be a clear contract, detailing all of the things you discuss ie; Clear KPI's, how the upfront fee works (we envisage precisely the type of arrangement you describe where the fee is re-imbursed on a pro-rata basis if "either" party is not satisfied) for exactly the resaons you detail so well in your post (so i won't repeat them again here).
The importance of detailing everything in the contract (and then spending the time going through that detail together with the mentee) is that neither party wants to waste their time investing in something that quite clearly is not going to work. In my case, I firstly want my mentee to become competent as a Property Developer, but my main objective is to build a longer relationship with this person as "business partners", working together longer term to grow each others company. Therefore, I really need to do my DD on each of my mentees to ensure I believe that they have the right attitude & ability, share the same values, have the willingness & the available time to commit, have the ability to learn & listen, are able to take action & deliver. As I have stated previously, every mentorship is different & one should be clear on what one wants; very often I hear of mentors who are bad & not so often that mentees are bad!! For this reason, I have limited my mentees to 2 at one time as my reputation is paramount to me & I do not have time for time wasters or non-action takers. If my mentees do not perform or I do not perform, I will be documenting publicly as to why! This is written into our contract that we both sign as I am happy to be held accountable, but want my mentees to be held accountable too!!! My first 2 mentees will be starting in August & September respectively & I invite you to foloow their progress on my facebook page.
Hi Steve and Sophie,Thank you both for joining the conversation and bringing clarity to this discussion.Steve - the purpose of this site it to make the private rented sector and the wider property sector better and safer for all involved.As you are aware, the "wealth creation" industry is completely unregulated and it therefore attracts a number of rogues, conmen, or those who believe it's okay to "fake it until you make it" - often using other people's money.These forums have documented many cases where people were promised a dream, but their dream turned into a nightmare, and they lost life-changing amounts of money.Common themes surrounding these cases was someone making big claims, speaking at wealth creation events including PIN events, asking for big fees upfront, offering only a limited number of places etc. so you can see why due diligence is needed to weed out the rogues from the ethical operators.This process of due diligence actually aids the ethical operators, as it allows them to distinguish themselves from the rogues. If claims have to be substantiated, then the rogues won't be able to and the ethical operators will, so they win.Sadly, all too often, when people are challenged, they take it personally and turn nasty, sometimes attempting to discredit anybody asking pertinent questions.The actual process of due diligence could not be more UN-personal as it's based on documentary evidence, not what someone claims, or whether they appear "genuine" or "nice".I appreciated that you have provided an explanation of your background and situation and it sounds entirely reasonable.It's also great that you are going to document the progress of the two mentees in such an open manner. I am sure it will prove a useful resource.As you are new to the scene, you can appreciate that you are something of an unknown quantity, and time will aid with that process of getting to know your modus operandi & business model.In the meantime, I thank you for joining the discussion and helping the community understand where you are coming from.
Vanessa Warwick Landlord and Co-Founder of PropertyTribes.com **If you have got value from Property Tribes, find out how you can support it in remaining a free to use community resource**
Sadly, I wish it hadn't come to this, however, after doing my own DD on Steve where I came across this thread that led me to investing my money into his mentorship, I feel its only fair on others to hear my story on this site before other sites.
I'm happy to provide more granular detail although I'll provide a high-level summary for now.
I invested in Steve last month and attended my first mentoring session in Manchester which turned out to be a 1-2-1, not a group mastermind mentoring session that I prefer as I like to learn in a group and from others, which what was sold to me at the beginning.
After my first session, I just felt Steve wasn't the right mentor for me for a number of reasons, mainly the delivery of service. A couple of weeks later I expressed this to Steve on the telephone, and then followed up on email asking for a refund and to pay for the time we spent during our first session.
He finally came back to me today via email following two emails I sent to Steve about my desire to walk away and have a clean break at this early stage (for reasons that I gave him, and some other reasons that I held back due to information given to me in confidence from others), to which he refuses to cancel my mentorship and refund me.
The way in which Steve spoke to me on the telephone recently, very much passive aggressively cemented my decision to not work with Steve claiming not one single person has been unhappy with working him.
All I asked for was a clean break at this very early stage. Steve is now proving to be very difficult by rejecting my request to cancel the mentorship and attempting to continue to work with a mentee who does not believe in him, his business approaches and mentoring.
My question to you @vanessa - do you see Steve being unreasonable in this situation based on my request?
Some general thoughts on this for all:1. What do your terms and conditions say about refunds?2. Many people judge a company, not just by their service, but how they deal with things when things go wrong or the customer does not feel satisfied, for whatever reason.3. If you paid on a credit card, you could apply for a refund under Section 75.
The simple fact is I was sold something that wasn't delivered to me on the first encounter with Steve Colley.
A group mastermind was the main emphasis so that learning takes place amongst the room of developers. This never happened.
A full afternoon of learning deal appraisal using the spreadsheet that Steve provided. Never happened. Instead, Steve talked about social media and did a couple of examples on a whiteboard which I took a few photos of.
Steve not back my intentions for the new build property development strategy by claiming there its too risky to acquire funding.
These points amongst others solidified why I didn't believe he was the right mentor for me.
To his credit, he came across a nice and pleasant gentleman but failed to deliver what was sold to me on email. Because of this, I assumed he would be a decent guy and accept that we part ways amicably but instead I've had to come onto sites like this to tell my story over the sake of Steve desperately holding onto my £5,000, of which I have stated that I would agree to pay for the one month/time spent with him as I am a reasonable person.
It's just a shame it had to end this way after meeting/working with Steve on one occasion.
How long was the course? When did you raise your concerns?
It's a 12-month mastermind programme. I attended the first session (which was not group based) Sunday 9th June 2019 with Steve 1-2-1 at the Hilton hotel. Raised my first concerns on Saturday 22nd June via telephone whilst Steve was on a ferry. Then by email, as mentioned above. It turns out its not a mastermind, it's 1-2-1 which I didn't want therefore mislead into something that isn't right for me. All I wanted was a clean break but Steve seems desperate to hold on to my £5,000 and not have a clean break. Shame really. Wish he would be a decent guy about it.
Looks like he has a couple of websites https://www.pdnetwork.co.uk/ / https://pdnonline.co.uk
He has a number of Directorships under two profiles, all it seems started in the last couple of years, so no financials.......
Does come across well in a recent video posted on YouTube sharing his story, but they always do......hope you get sorted.