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  • Tax

    The future of BTL not in our hands

    We are all in BTL to make money we are not social landlords ???

    We have all seen an opportunity to make money one way or another be it a small business or a large business

    But I have realised that we are not Captains of our destiny in point of fact we have very little control of out business other than being managers or owners

    Our business has become very political and we are seen as the bad guys by the press and the media

    We are seen as greedy and selfish and that we don't give a dam about our customers of course in any business we will have bad managers /owners  but I personally think we have a great number of good owners/managers

    who get little press coverage

    But putting that aside where are we going

    The truthful answer is no one knows

    If the Govt wants rid of the PRS it will do more Taxation and regulation will kill BTL

    If we look at history this happened in the past look at 50s/60s/70, for your information and you will see what I mean

    Read the Story of Rachman  and his business and the Govts  actions to kill of the private Landlord

    Beds in sheds over crowding and not allowing tenants with curry

    Sounds  familiar and we should heed history

    We have a govt who want to have home ownership as it was in the 1980s

    By pushing out Landlords they could have there wish

    I don't think the govt gives one thought to homelessness' its not a priority we think in the Landlord community

    The Govt want young families to own not to rent

    They will encourage the Large Co to Buiid to Rent but that model is very different from the one we have in the PRS

    We can not argue that BTL has changed a great number of streets of home owners to a street of Landlords

    and when I drive up and down some of the streets which are owned by Landlords they are a mess

    My own belief is we are going to see more Taxation one way or another

    The tide has changed and we are swimming against the currant

    Just as in the days of the 50s./60s/70s

    Yes  we have all had a good ride but my own thoughts is we are heading for the end of BTL

    I do expect you all to say DL is wrong

    But history is a great thing Nothing is new in life it has all happened before

    Most Landlords are products of there time and we have done well

    I am quite sure the Govt will bring in more taxation and Taxation is the way it will stop BTL

    we can all have strategy  we can all have a team behind us giving advice

    But if the BIG TEAM in London wants us out they have the power to do so

    There is nothing wrong with BTL as  an investment but I believe we should all be looking at other avenues to secure our destiny

    is the glass half full or half empty but if the glass is taken away it makes no difference

    we are not Capitan's of our destiny  we can only operate with the consent of govt


    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    Thank you DL!  Another thought-provoking post to start my day :-)

    Certainly the factors that impact a BTL business are changing, and quite dramatically.  But, much has changed since I started working in this sector back in 2005. 

    One of the biggest changes has been the investor's attitude towards risk.  Back then, it was seen as high risk (and rather irresponsible) to invest in a property via mortgage funding UNLESS you could service the loan with the property unlet and no rental income. 

    I saw that change after 2008, perhaps when lenders and other businesses in the sector realised the potential of new business from BTL investors?  It became the norm to borrow, to leverage heavily.  Our investor clients' view was that you were in BTL for capital growth OR income, but not both.  That was back in 2005/6/7. 

    Those who built a portfolio by releasing equity from one property, to act as a deposit on the next and have the balance funded by an interest-only mortgage, were seen as foolhardy back then.  I wonder if the pressure from those who offer finance in this sector has changed this perspective, to make anyone who has a deposit and is able to get an interest-only mortgage, believe they can make a go of being a landlord? 

    Just like some investors were led like lambs to the slaughter with CHF loans for purchases in Poland, Cyprus etc, believing the spin that it was 'cheaper'?  One thing is for certain - BTL is a serious business, not for the feint-hearted, and not for those wanting a 'passive income'...there's nothing passive about it!!

    All the best



    I agree Helan

    But do the Govt see us as an asset or Not

    Lending got out of hand I know I remortgage pre 2007 to buy more property with deposits of 15% at the time

    after the crash I learned it was wise to save deposits and borrow less

    But its all to do with the Future now and Govt Policy if they want to see the end of us there is very little we can do ???


    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    I think the fundamental problem with the government/administration/law makers is that they have very little understanding of the BTL sector and the private landlord.  Nor they do appreciate just how vital the private landlord's role in the rental market is.  Without private landlords, who will tenants rent from? 

    I agree there must be regulation, to protect tenants and all those who are involved in this sector, but the unscrupulous landlords are hardly going to comply with regulation are they?!  They'll always be under the radar, doing their own thing. 

    Times are a-changing, that's for certain!  Keeping abreast of changes, complying with the rules & regs, and protecting one's assets by using GOOD letting agents who select GOOD tenants, and monitor a tenancy correctly...that's our approach. 

    Vital to find the best service providers available, IMO.

    All the best



    This is my point Helen I don't think the Govt give a dam to homeless folk

    Councils ect do realise the prob but the Govt Don't

    The Govt cant see the good work agents and landlords do

    all they see is Generation Rent and Shelter and greedy landlords who are making a lot of money

    You and I know the truth is different but I we can not rely on the Tories in our sector who can we rely on

    S24 I think was a Green Policy and who brought us S24 Dear old George

    all it takes is Rent Control and the end of the AST and the game is over just as it was in the early 1980s


    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    Good points DL.  This is where the govt, the administration, the wet-behind-the-ears policy makers, are so out of touch.  Tenants are not just poor, homeless folk.  There are thousands and thousands of working people for whom a mortgage is now entirely out of reach, because over the years house prices have risen so much faster than salaries. 

    Unless one is the beneficiary of an inherited property or inherited funds, or has parents wealthy enough to stump up a deposit, purchasing a property isn't an option.  These people NEED a good private rental sector.  Decent properties, good terms, and affordable rents. 

    The social housing sector has to be considered too, as its equally important, though very different to the PRS.  Therefore, there's a need for good landlords & good properties in both the PRS and the social housing sector.  I just think there is a massive black hole in the govt/administration/policy makers' knowledge and understanding of the PRS, and this will be the case regardless of which political party is wearing the trousers.

    Note to self....at least it's not as bad as the rental sector in the USA ;-)

    All the best



    I am not saying the PRS is not indeed of change there so much more the govt could do to help the sector

    But you 110% right when you say there is a black hole in the thinking of the govt

    plan for the worsted hope for the best  


    Learn Change and Adapt ?????

    I am a glass half full sort of person and am quite prepared to deal with anything the government throws at the PRS. Taking a medium to long term view, there is just not enough housing to meet the needs of the population. This is going to mean house prices are going to to go up and up, especially in the North. Where I live, house prices are still lower than they were 10 years ago! Factor in inflation and they are considerably lower.

    I'm confident we will have a boom during the next 7 years and prices will move more out of the reach of first time buyers. The only alternative they will have is to rent. The PRS will continue to grow because of this fundamental fact. The penny will eventually drop with the government and those of us that are savvy enough to keep investing in the sector will do very well indeed. All this doom and gloom will lead to amateur landlords getting out of the market and I will be there waiting to bag some great deals.

    Keep up with the doom and gloom!


    What affect do yo think the following will have on house prices -

    Brexit and a reduction or reversal of immigration

    Increase in interest rates

    Tightening of mortgage lending criteria

    Reversal of Quantitative Easing

    End of Help To Buy

    Also why do you think house prices in your area are lower than they were ten years ago as I suspect those that bought then were equally confident that prices would continue to increase.


    Brexit will have hardly any impact. The predicted doom and gloom before the referendum hasn't materialised just as I expected.

    A reduction in immigration will have a minimal impact. The population is growing every year regardless of immigration and we are nowhere near building enough of the right type of property to suit demand. A basic law of supply and demand will ensure house prices continue to rise.

    Tightening of mortgage lending criteria will mean less competition for me. That suits me just fine. It will be professional, positive landlords that will thrive in future. The days of the amateurs are numbered. Great news for me as I bag myself several bargains.

    Increase in interest rates will again lessen the competition and force amateurs to bail out. People will lose their houses due to being overstretched and I'll again be around to bag some bargains.

    Reversal of Quantitative Easing. I'm not sure what you mean by this. The damage is already done. Assets such as houses have got a long way to go up in price thanks to QE. We don't need anymore of it but it can't be reversed. The cat is already out of the bag and it won't be getting put back in.

    End of Help to Buy. This hasn't affected the market much and ending it won't make much difference.

    House prices are lower in my area because of the last recession. Houses prices were lower in every area initially because of the recession. They've picked up a lot in London and the South East generally and the Midlands and the North are primed for a strong rebound. Do you know Manchester is now the best performing city in the UK in terms of house price increases? London is now in the bottom 5. There will be a ripple effect from Manchester that will spread to Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield and surrounding towns. I am buying as many as I can now as I expect them to double in value in the next 5 to 7 years.

    Prices will increase because we are halfway through the 18 year property cycle and what follows is sustained growth leading to a boom. Also there is nowhere near enough supply to meet demand and this situation is getting worse every year. When something is in short supply it's price rises.


    I disagree with your  conclusions and my own view is property prices may well be lower in 5 to 7 years time rather than doubling in this period.

    Whilst I agree there is a property cycle I don't believe it is necessarily of an eighteen year period, many factors could lengthen or shorten the cycle period.

    We each have our own view of the market and will act accordingly.